Failure After J02 Recall - Discussion Threads

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Do we know the number of failures that have been reported here? I suppose someone could go through and count them but I don't recall seeing a specific number.

Statistically the sample size here would be valid, if we had true numbers showing the number recalled, the number of those recalled that were taken in, the number of those that failed and the number that didn't fail and the sample was limited to only those online here before the repairs were attempted by a dealer. That would be a valid sampling.

Unfortunately I don't think we have that number, and it certainly isn't random. It is likely there are folks on here that came to this forum only because they had a failure. There are zero folks on here that came to the forum because they had a successful experience.

The last I checked there were over 100 failure reports on this forum and yes there have been people that joined just to report the failure. I doubt anyone joins just to report a success though.

[Little Mt. Fuji]

Originally Posted by Little Mt. Fuji

Update:
Motor spun rod bearing 4 back in July 1500 miles after recall with about 85k miles.
Got car back 4 weeks later with a refurbished shortblock. They reused the heads and cams (probably the coolant and oil too). No hassle or arguing and at no cost to me (I really woulda liked a nice yell or two to the GM).
Just passed 1500 miles on the new shortblock today. No issues and still feels good. Did an oil change at 500 miles and oil looked good. Hopefully she doesnt have a temper tantrum and rod knock like the last one. Im still not sold on it not blowing up till I hit 3000 miles on it, but no matter what it will still look good in my driveway with or without a engine.

Update:

Put about ~4000 miles on refurbished shortblock, 6 months after the rebuild from dealer everything is good. Engine oil looks really clean, engine sounds great and revs freely, no drips or leaks, HPFP is as loud as ever. Only complaint is that they broke the rubber access cover for the hole to access the flywheel. They used a large piece of it and used a black putty to keep it in place instead of replacing the $10 part. oh well. Going to do an oil change in about 1000 miles and send a sample to blackstone to check on it.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ermax

The guy was asking about odds of failure. My whole point was that even with the limited data we have we already know the odds are worse to do the recall vs not. I understand the limited data creates a doom and gloom but comparing the odds of doing vs not isn’t based on emotion, it’s just simple logic.

OH sorry! I missed that point.
Yes, with what we know the odds of failure from the repair are worse than the odds of failure from the springs.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

OH sorry! I missed that point.
Yes, with what we know the odds of failure from the repair are worse than the odds of failure from the springs.

Or do we? By replacing the springs we now no longer know how many would ultimately fail if the recall didn't happen. It is possible that the longer they were used metal fatigue would have come into play, or cracks would develop along the "bad parts".

[DeadBRZ]

Originally Posted by ermax

The last I checked there were over 100 failure reports on this forum and yes there have been people that joined just to report the failure. I doubt anyone joins just to report a success though.

Good point. I joined just to report the failure. If the dealer had agreed to repair the engine after it had failed I would not have joined so my recall experience would have been considered a success.
How many other people had an engine failure after the recall where the dealer covered the repair without question. They would all be happy owners and this forum would consider them part of the success numbers since they did not report their issue. I would consider that a fail with a happy ending. But definitely not a success.
It would be nice if those numbers could be included in the overall failure rate for the recall.
But we will never know - Only way to know is find out how many short blocks have been shipped to dealers. I doubt a block is a common item used in everyday repairs. I would then say, every short block ordered and delivered after a recall could be considered a failure. (I'd also include how many used engines have shipped from auto wreckers in that number)

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Or do we? By replacing the springs we now no longer know how many would ultimately fail if the recall didn't happen. It is possible that the longer they were used metal fatigue would have come into play, or cracks would develop along the "bad parts".

Oh that is true too. The data is totally screwed at this point.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DeadBRZ

Good point. I joined just to report the failure. If the dealer had agreed to repair the engine after it had failed I would not have joined so my recall experience would have been considered a success.
How many other people had an engine failure after the recall where the dealer covered the repair without question. They would all be happy owners and this forum would consider them part of the success numbers since they did not report their issue. I would consider that a fail with a happy ending. But definitely not a success.
It would be nice if those numbers could be included in the overall failure rate for the recall.
But we will never know - Only way to know is find out how many short blocks have been shipped to dealers. I doubt a block is a common item used in everyday repairs. I would then say, every short block ordered and delivered after a recall could be considered a failure. (I'd also include how many used engines have shipped from auto wreckers in that number)

The last I saw about 60
% of the people that had failures the dealer covered it. There are of course the ones that came on, said they had a failure and the dealer was looking into it and then never updated as to what happened. We can probably assume that they got covered. Not all the dealers are sacks of crap!

We have no better way to determine short-blocks shipped than we do anything else. Also would not tell us how many failures were covered by the honest dealers.

[Eazy-V]

Do we have database of members who have had valve springs failures?

I don’t have many kms/miles on my 2013, but have it tuned to 400whp on E73 turbo’d, so still hesitant to do the recall.

[alan.chalkley]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Not getting your point?
The recall work itself is done for free. They extend the warranty on the springs after the work. The failures due to shoddy workmanship should be covered by the spring extended warranty but the dealerships that screw up are saying it isn't their fault so they are not covering it. Ironically enough even the pre recall spun bearing failures where excessive sealant was found were only covered by warranty about 50% of the time. The other cases the dealership always blamed the owner in some way so trying to extend the recall past the warranty period would not even come up.

My reaction to this was started by an 86 post valve spring recall that died right in front of my house and started my new recall phobia.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by alan.chalkley

My reaction to this was started by an 86 post valve spring recall that died right in front of my house and started my new recall phobia.

Which completely and totally sucks in all ways but is not a reason to invent some hidden agenda on the part of Subaru.

[alan.chalkley]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Which completely and totally sucks in all ways but is not a reason to invent some hidden agenda on the part of Subaru.

I am not inventing the passing of time that it took to issue the recall.
Was it about seven years?
A lot of cars were built in that period of time!

[DarkSideFRS]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Which completely and totally sucks in all ways but is not a reason to invent some hidden agenda on the part of Subaru.

I think it's a scare tactic on the part of Toyota and Subaru. First, they come up with the actual cost of this recall. Then they look at their budget and it's only enough to cover 1/3 of the repairs. So how do they lower cost? By scaring off ppl to not do the recall. It makes sense to me.....

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by alan.chalkley

I am not inventing the passing of time that it took to issue the recall.
Was it about seven years?
A lot of cars were built in that period of time!

The cars impacted by the recall were built in about an eight moth period in 2013.
It would take at least a couple of years for there to be enough spring failures to trigger an investigation.
The investigation into the problem and determining what was the issue would take several months to a year.
They would then need to inform various applicable agencies that they were performing a voluntary recall. Those agencies would then take time to process and release it.
The recall was released on November 1 2018.

This is in no way abnormal or dragged out for such a thing. The Takata airbag recalls are still going on for cars from as far back as 2003.

The recall is covered under warranty even when the standard and drive train ones are up so there was zero incentive to delay it in any way.

There is no indication that they continued to use the bad spring beyond the one batch made so it doesn't matter how many cars they made after the issue was found.

[alan.chalkley]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The cars impacted by the recall were built in about an eight moth period in 2013.
It would take at least a couple of years for there to be enough spring failures to trigger an investigation.
The investigation into the problem and determining what was the issue would take several months to a year.
They would then need to inform various applicable agencies that they were performing a voluntary recall. Those agencies would then take time to process and release it.
The recall was released on November 1 2018.

This is in no way abnormal or dragged out for such a thing. The Takata airbag recalls are still going on for cars from as far back as 2003.

The recall is covered under warranty even when the standard and drive train ones are up so there was zero incentive to delay it in any way.

There is no indication that they continued to use the bad spring beyond the one batch made so it doesn't matter how many cars they made after the issue was found.

It took more time to filter here down under and covers the start of 2012 production to may 2013.
The airbag recalls here are being recalled again because the replacement airbags are also faulty.
Maybe the valve spring recalls should be recalled again to check everything that causes the recall failures.