UNDERPOWERED? THE REAL DEAL!!!

[TruRace]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I'm saying you keep talking about power, but that's just one line on a spec sheet. Why ignore weight (or feedback or handling balance), which I feel are the main reasons people buy these cars? Have those other cars improved in those areas in any meaningful way?

I don't think anyone really buys the Twins for stock laptimes or power, so it seems odd to point to those things and say the Twins are falling behind their competition.

I keep talking about power because of the thread title. Noone is saying the frs doesn't have great handling dynamics but you have cars like the Mustang which is already cheaper quicker and now steeping it up to irs from a solid rear, which is a significant improvement, than yes I would say the twins are falling behind. The new gti is said to have improved it's handling and from the reviews I've read it's pretty significant. I'm not sure what the Genesis has in store but it looks like it is now getting replaced with the v6 as the base model. Based on what I just said how can you not say the twins are not falling behind?

[tahdizzle]

Also, once a car has sent a benchmark (in this case, handeling dynamics in the twins), its only natural and expected for competitors to meet and surpass that benchmark.

If some sort of performance package doesn't happen in the current gen, then either they discontinue the model or upgrade the 2nd gen.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by TruRace

I keep talking about power because of the thread title. Noone is saying the frs doesn't have great handling dynamics but you have cars like the Mustang which is already cheaper quicker and now steeping it up to irs from a solid rear, which is a significant improvement, than yes I would say the twins are falling behind. The new gti is said to have improved it's handling and from the reviews I've read it's pretty significant. I'm not sure what the Genesis has in store but it looks like it is now getting replaced with the v6 as the base model. Based on what I just said how can you not say the twins are not falling behind?

If the Mustang adds IRS, but gains weight, I'm not sure it's a net win. The odd thing to me is, the majority of complaints about the Mustang were about its size and weight, but Ford chose to address the solid rear axle, which was sort of a secondary concern for most. And possibly at the expense of weight, which would be a big mistake IMO.

The new GTI is supposed to be lighter, more refined, faster, and better handling, so I agree there, it made up some ground on the Twins. But it was so far behind in terms of handling and feedback to begin with, I'd say it still lags behind overall (speaking as an owner of a mk6 GTI).

Anyway I'll concede, if your primary concerns with the Twins are power and laptimes, they will probably lose ground as other cars increase horsepower. But if you bought the Twins primarily for their handling, weight, feedback, etc., then other cars gaining power/faster laptimes isn't a huge deal.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by 1086

Sorry about that @DarkSunrise. I got that chart from http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/the-golden-powerweight-ratio/65298/page1/

I didn't really check any of the numbers. I assumed they were fairly accurate.

Haha no need to apologize, I was just shocked at how good the Fiesta's p-w ratio was on that chart, compared to its real-world performance. Then I realized it was 200 lbs heavier than listed.

[misooscar]

Driver experience is a huge factor.

In my early 20s I owned a 1991 300zx TT, modified to put 300 to the ground.

The frs is a different kind of car, a scalpel that can carve the road, with the tail sliding:

Skinny tires, and a smooth power band

With the traction control feature, it's 20 years ahead of what car and driver described as the best handling car (300z)




Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[driftguy]

Originally Posted by TruRace

One could say the frs is underpowered compared to its competitors. You could argue the competition, but I would put the frs in the same category as the mustsng v6, genesis coupe, gti, and the focus St. All these mentioned have more power than the frs/brz. When the 2015 drops the twins are definitely in trouble. If you remember the motor trend comparison of the 28k high performance coupes last year the Mustang was quicker around willow springs than the twins. Add irs to the equation and the stangs times are sure to improve.
I love the twins but come 2016 there needs to be a increase in power for them to say competitive

I don't understand this reasoning. As far as I can see the FRS does not have a competitor. Here is my reasoning:

Mustang – it’s a Mustang, I don’t want the same damn car as everyone else, even if it’s fast and cheap. Also, it’s a Ford, obviously not a Japanese brand.

Genesis – it’s a Hyundai, again not Japanese. Also it’s ugly as sin.

GTI – it’s wrong-wheel drive. Also not Japanese. Also it’s a hatchback.

Focus ST- it’s wrong wheel drive. Also not Japanese. It’s slightly less ugly than the Genesis.



Anyone, please name a rear-wheel drive two-door car being sold brand new today for under 26k from Japan.

Go ahead…. I’ll wait.

[tahdizzle]

Miat.... Err Mx-5

[driftguy]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Miat.... Err Mx-5

Touche. Should've said not a convertible as well.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by driftguy

Touche. Should've said not a convertible as well.

MX-5 Hardtop Convertible.

Actually, that's a pretty sexy car. I wish I fit in them.

[TruRace]

Originally Posted by driftguy

I don't understand this reasoning. As far as I can see the FRS does not have a competitor. Here is my reasoning:

Mustang – it’s a Mustang, I don’t want the same damn car as everyone else, even if it’s fast and cheap. Also, it’s a Ford, obviously not a Japanese brand.

Genesis – it’s a Hyundai, again not Japanese. Also it’s ugly as sin.

GTI – it’s wrong-wheel drive. Also not Japanese. Also it’s a hatchback.

Focus ST- it’s wrong wheel drive. Also not Japanese. It’s slightly less ugly than the Genesis.



Anyone, please name a rear-wheel drive two-door car being sold brand new today for under 26k from Japan.

Go ahead…. I’ll wait.

Your "reasoning" is clearly biased and quite frankly is not worth my time arguing. Look up the motortrend comparison that is all.

[Davey]

Well, I guess we can all agree that the BRZ/FR-S is the best in its class because it has no competition then?

[Pizzman]

Mine is fast. You guys must have got the slow ones.

[FRSupra]

If this car had more power, I doubt I'd like it as much.

Just want to say thanks you to

@Rampage, @humfrz, @DarkSunrise, @ichitaka05, @Nevermore, @Tromatic, @1086, and @trevorovert

for your continual intellect.

Good group of owners right there.

[Yrr]

When I was shopping for a new car I made a list of competitors.

The only real compatition imho was the BMW 2-series.
But since the BMW cost around 15k euro's more, the choise was easily made.