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Old 02-20-2015, 01:45 PM   #85
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You can make FWD cars oversteer no problem!
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Old 02-20-2015, 01:53 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling View Post
Hate on them all you want, but there still is nothing comparable for the money that will be faster around a track than a well sorted mildly modded sr20det-powered 240sx. The only other cars I'd look at would be a miata or an MR-2 but both will be significantly slower outside of an autocross environment.

Sure, there's tons of riced out examples out there with shitty chinese/korean parts, but the same is already happening with the FR-S/BRZ and will continue to be true of the FR-S/BRZ in the future. The difference is the 240sx is much, much, much cheaper, and the SR is much, much easier/cheaper to get power out of than the FA20.
I can't see how a 240 is dollar for dollar the fastest in this price range.
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Old 02-20-2015, 03:15 PM   #87
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I can't see how a 240 is dollar for dollar the fastest in this price range.
Why not? RWD, check. Lighter than most cars (about the same as the FR-S/BRZ), check. Easily upgradeable turbocharged engine available to swap in (because it came in the car in the rest of the world), check. One of the largest aftermarkets available for any import car, check. Cheap chassis, check. Cheap parts, check.

There is no comparable car for the price, except for a Miata or MR2. The Miata & last gen MR2 handle better, but they will need a ton more work to have anywhere near the same power-to-weight ratio you can get out of a 240sx with an SR for relatively little money... Realistically, it will be impossible without going with a non-Miata/non-MR2 engine.

A Miata or MR2 with a K20/K24 swap with a supercharger or turbo would put up a good fight, but would not be cheap to build.

The Silvia/240sx has extremely high potential. Just look at World Time Attack.... Scorch Racing S15, MCA Suspension S13, Sutton brothers S15, etc.... some of the fastest RWD production-based cars in the world.

I love my S2000 and hands-down think it is a better handling car, but the car itself and all aftermarket parts for it are significantly more expensive. Dollar for dollar, the 240sx is simply much cheaper to build into something special.
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Old 02-20-2015, 05:34 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling View Post
A Miata or MR2 with a K20/K24 swap with a supercharger or turbo would put up a good fight, but would not be cheap to build.
Looks like slapping a turbo on the 1.8L Miata nets you in the 200 WHP range relatively reliably, I'm coming up with ~$5k for the build, if you assume picking up a car for under $5k you've got yourself a $10k turbo Miata at ~2,200 lbs, power to weight of 11 lbs/hp

Toyobaru stock at 2800lbs/160whp = 17.5 whp

Given the 240sx weighs in around 2,800 lbs you'd need 250 WHP, seems reasonable based on a quick search and a good SR20DET so it comes down to personal preference and funding because I didn't care to look at how much it costs.

Then you've got to feed it fuel (a wash between the two), tires and brakes (I would guess Miata is cheaper on these two given weight and larger aftermarket) and entry fees (a wash). I am really starting to understand why the 240sx is so popular, very much a "I won't drive a Miata" car.


Aww yeah benchracing.
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Old 02-20-2015, 07:16 PM   #89
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Again thanks for all the responses. I need weight my options and do lots of reading before I even think about doing something.
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Old 02-20-2015, 07:57 PM   #90
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If you plan to drive the car on the street, SR20DET are not and will never be CARB legal...
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Old 02-21-2015, 11:01 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post
Given the 240sx weighs in around 2,800 lbs you'd need 250 WHP, seems reasonable based on a quick search and a good SR20DET so it comes down to personal preference and funding because I didn't care to look at how much it costs.

Then you've got to feed it fuel (a wash between the two), tires and brakes (I would guess Miata is cheaper on these two given weight and larger aftermarket) and entry fees (a wash). I am really starting to understand why the 240sx is so popular, very much a "I won't drive a Miata" car.


Aww yeah benchracing.
A STOCK S15 SR20DET (marginally more expensive than any other SR) makes 250hp (not at the wheels, but it's easy to get a little more out of it). The difference is the Miata can not support much past 250-300hp. The SR can support 350-450hp or even up to 700-800hp if you go with the VET VVL head. Obviously we're talking about much more money, but it's still an engine that originally came in the car and bolts right up to factory motor mounts, and it has much higher potential. Some people may not care about "potential" but I think it's an important thing to pay attention to because it gives you plenty of options when you start getting bored and come up with extra money to throw around.

Besides that, there is a lot of weight to lose in a 240sx. There are many out there at 2,200 - 2,500 pounds.

I also wouldn't say the Miata has a larger aftermarket. I think that shows you are fairly unfamiliar with the 240sx. The Miata is a popular car, mostly due to autocross (where it excels), and has a good sized aftermarket, but the 240sx aftermarket is easily just as large, and, honestly, probably larger. Have you seen how many parts are available for one? Literally every single thing you could possibly ever want.

It's obvious you're not showing the car any respect. I'm guessing you've never actually driven nor been in a decent one. It's so popular because it's a small, light RWD coupe that can be setup to handle very well and came with a turbocharged motor from the factory in most of the world. It does very well in various forms of motorsports and is relatively inexpensive compared to many other cars.

Don't get me wrong, the Miata is great. Better suspension design (double wishbones all around), lighter, short wheelbase, etc.... This makes it very agile and especially well suited to tight corners (perfect for autocross, like the S2000, but much lighter)... but it also has downsides. The stock suspension on it is also very soft and not track-oriented, the NA/NB chassis has no rigidity (very floppy), and the power potential is very low without going with a K-series or LSx engine. The MR2 Spyder is great too, and I, personally, think a turbocharged K24 MR2 would make an awesome track/time attack car... but stock, it's underpowered, and it has a much smaller aftermarket than the other 2.

With all that said, I didn't notice the OP lives in California, nor did I notice he said he would have to daily drive it for a little while. All I saw was "track car" until just now. So, maybe there are better options for him... For the record, I live in Florida, where tons of SR-powered S-chassis cars roam around the streets without any legal issues. There are even some S15s down here driving around. haha.
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Old 02-21-2015, 11:02 AM   #92
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If you plan to drive the car on the street, SR20DET are not and will never be CARB legal...
The LSx is an option, but not cheap, nor would it be my first choice for grip driving. It would definitely still be fun though.
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Old 02-22-2015, 02:40 AM   #93
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lol @Sideways&Smiling you listed every reason why I'd pick a Miata over an 240sx 6 days a week and twice on Sundays:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling View Post
Don't get me wrong, the Miata is great. Better suspension design (double wishbones all around), lighter, short wheelbase, etc.... This makes it very agile and especially well suited to tight corners (perfect for autocross, like the S2000, but much lighter)... but it also has downsides. The stock suspension on it is also very soft and not track-oriented, the NA/NB chassis has no rigidity (very floppy), and the power potential is very low without going with a K-series or LSx engine.
You call out all these 'deficiencies' that exist on the 240sx by your own admission, why would every part under the sun be needed from aftermarket unless the OEM needed replacing? bleh I could counterpoint this all day, I tried throwing you a bone, enjoy.
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Old 02-23-2015, 11:43 AM   #94
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I don't hate the 240SX. I've built a couple of them and driven more.


However, there are some rose colored glasses being used in this thread about them for sure.
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