Stiff 2nd Gear actuation when cold on manual 6 Speed of FRS/BRZ? There's a reason!

[Ingen]

Originally Posted by norsamerican

It just doesn't make sense in an engineering perspective to make something overall better and sacrifice something else. No offense.

That's literally all that engineering is, and all that engineers do, that bold part. You can't make everything better, and you can't make it perfect all the time.

[Jeffsu350]

If everything is more precise ... Why does only second gear have issues ...

[sikest]

Glad to hear someone came forward to say it's normal.

When I had a Miata the forums always lit up in winter with complaints about 2nd gear.

When I had a Porsche Boxster S the forums always lit up in winter with complaints about 2nd gear.

When I had a Mustang GT the forums always lit up in winter with complaints about 2nd gear.

When I had a Corvette C6 the forums always lit up in winter with complaints about 2nd gear.

Now I have a FR-S and the forum yet again has lit up this winter with complaints about 2nd gear.

So stop worrying about 2nd gear guys. Just take it easy on the tranny as it warms up and enjoy your car.

[LeeMaster]

Why is my 2nd gear so stiffy when cold? Because race car!

[getbent]

Originally Posted by Jeffsu350

If everything is more precise ... Why does only second gear have issues ...

Because the ratio between first and second is the largest and the synchros have the most work to do.

The same issue is experienced on sportbikes where you are most likely to miss the 1-2 shift than any other due to the large spread in ratios between those two gears.

[Dazza]

Originally Posted by sikest

Glad to hear someone come forward to say it's normal.

When I had a Miata the forums always lit up in winter with complaints about 2nd gear.

When I had a Porsche Boxster S the forums always lit up in winter with complaints about 2nd gear.

When I had a Mustang GT the forums always lit up in winter with complaints about 2nd gear.

When I had a Corvette C6 the forums always lit up in winter with complaints about 2nd gear.

Not I have a FR-S and the forums always lit up in winter with complaints about 2nd gear.

So stop worrying about 2nd gear guys. Just take it easy on the tranny as it warms up and enjoy your car.

Add manual transmission Ferrari's to your list....not bad company to be in huh?

[Rayme]

I always thought this was a reason, but people don't understand. Everything mechanical in a car is a compromise, harsher ride = better handling = poor comfort. Stronger synchro = harsher shifter. Softer synchro = less durable but smoother operation, and on and on...

I mean, those highly paied people in Formula one still haven't found a way to make sticky tire work good without having to warm them up! Same shit applies to this transmission, it needs to be warm to work as intended.

[#87]

Originally Posted by ottopilot

I always thought this was a reason, but people don't understand. Everything mechanical in a car is a compromise, harsher ride = better handling = poor comfort. Stronger synchro = harsher shifter. Softer synchro = less durable but smoother operation, and on and on...

I mean, those highly paied people in Formula one still haven't found a way to make sticky tire work good without having to warm them up! Same shit applies to this transmission, it needs to be warm to work as intented.

YEA! why don't those silly F1 crews just run all seasons so they don't have to switch tires between dry, mildly moist, and wet. WTF MAN

[FRiSson]

That doesn't explain why the gear shifting is balky even after it is warmed up.

[coyote]

Originally Posted by Moto-P

Perhaps, but that was the answer I got from Aisin and Toyota's engineers and not the Public Relations staff

I think it's pretty safe to say that Tada's role now involves a LOT of public relations. Only a PR person would say the things he did recently about the torque dip. Only a PR person would be authorized to conduct the interviews and put forward Toyota's version of the partnership.

I suspect his selection for the project was as much because of his appearance, language and public relations skills as his engineering talents. It appears that he is being groomed as a Toyota engineering spokesperson (that is public relations) and probably more in time to come.

Good on him. He appears to be good at it, but I think it a bit naive to view his comments as inside technical info rather than carefully scripted PR.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by coyote

I think it's pretty safe to say that Tada's role now involves a LOT of public relations. Only a PR person would say the things he did recently about the torque dip. Only a PR person would be authorized to conduct the interviews and put forward Toyota's version of the partnership.

I suspect his selection for the project was as much because of his appearance, language and public relations skills as his engineering talents. It appears that he is being groomed as a Toyota engineering spokesperson (that is public relations) and probably more in time to come.

Good on him. He appears to be good at it, but I think it a bit naive to view his comments as inside technical info rather than carefully scripted PR.

I don't think @Moto-P talked directly to Tada on this one; he talked to AISIN and the technical staff who worked with Tada.

[J0nf]

Originally Posted by norsamerican

Hmmm I'm inclined to doubt that. With current technology a smoother second gear shift seems absolutely doable along with maintaining the "precise shifting." There are plenty of cars that shift well and don't have this issue. I don't mean to sound like a downer but I think that answer is a crock. It just doesn't make sense in an engineering perspective to make something overall better and sacrifice something else. No offense.

It's all good...i'm sure it'll be fixed by 2014 or 2015 lol

[coyote]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

I don't think @Moto-P talked directly to Tada on this one; he talked to AISIN and the technical staff who worked with Tada.

Fair enough.

As much as people would like the think so, I still don't believe much gets "leaked" without being signed off from above.

I agree with the comments and rationale and would also prefer a tight box (did I really say that?), but it's a cost factor more than anything. I'm actually happy with the compromise.

Whilst the comparison with the 996 GT3 box is a bit irrelevant, I've driven a number of them and none were as bad when cold as my 86.

[BillY2KFRC]

Thanks for the post. The people that don't get this are obviously new to how high performance and race cars work. If you don't want to grind, shift slow or double clutch for the first few minutes until it gets up to temp. Just like you baby your engine until the oil is up to temp, you should do the same with the gearbox.

Also, all of my Vettes have behaved similar to this, even the latest TR6060 gearbox I have now. Some have been better than others, but none shifted perfectly when they were ice cold.