2014 C7 Chevrolet Corvette

[Grishbok]

I liked the looks of the c7 at first, but after about 20 minutes, the novelty of its vents and overly sculpted body panels reminded me of the song, pretty fly for a white guy from the Offspring. Its like its trying too hard...

Technically, its a wonderful advancement, theyve done what they needed to do to make a successor a success and raise the bar a little more.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

Yes and no. I want to do one badly. I will be buying a C7 at some point and my goal is to toss a cam in it. However, the major holdup isn't going to be physical parts, it's going to be figuring out the tuning. Supposedly it's a very smart PCM, possibly with onboard wideband, but you're locked out of fuel tables. Unverified rumors state that GM anticipated the aftermarket and set up the PCM with that in mind, but we'll see. Either way, I'm excited as all hell.

Piggyback that tampers with O2 sensor readings?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

True, BMEP is pretty much the universal ICE comparator, as is removes all whining and excuses from the situation.
The LSx engines' BMEP has never been impressive, but then again they don't really need to. They make massive torque, efficiency be damned. It's the American way.

Quite the opposite. They needed to ensure that this car got decent fuel economy. 450hp, upwards of 120mph in the 1/4, and 28mpg (guessing here, sure to be an improvement over the LS3 C6's 26)? Not too shabby.

That said, I'd be happy if they went quasi-Atkinson cycle during the V-4 low-load mode to get >30MPG hwy while also churning out 450HP at WOT. That'd get me amused no matter what the BMEP is.

Optimizing a sports car to be fast *and* efficient clearly doesn't require stellar BMEP, specific torque (same thing), or specific power. Maximizing those is necessary for getting max performance from limited displacement, but if you free up the displacement, other solutions are viable.

Worth noting that larger-displacement at lower rpm will inherently be at something of a compression ratio disadvantage, hence lower BMEP. That doesn't mean the big-inch/low revs solution can't be both powerful and fuel efficient, while also being compact and lightweight.

Big OHV V8s will never set torque/ or power/displacement records, but damned if they don't work BRILLIANTLY

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Quite the opposite. They needed to ensure that this car got decent fuel economy. 450hp, upwards of 120mph in the 1/4, and 28mpg (guessing here, sure to be an improvement over the LS3 C6's 26)? Not too shabby.

LOL, I wouldn't say opposite, but the point of fuel economy is entirely relative. It's non-sensical for us to compare a Prius C to a C7, unless they're both being used in the same way. If they're both commuters, then you can plainly say the Corvette gets poor fuel economy. It's all relative. Also, the argument about X MPG highway is entirely academic; I'd prefer to use Fuelly statistics as they're some sample of real world. There you can see most C6's average 20 MPG, whereas most 86's average 27 MPG.

I suppose that's all slightly unfair to the Corvette, but then again, the world isn't a fair place. I was kind of hoping the bombshell for the C7 would've been an IMA Hybrid along with the new LT1, but most likely the average demographic isn't ready for that kind of "have your cake and eat it too" implementation.

[Rayme]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

LOL, I wouldn't say opposite, but the point of fuel economy is entirely relative. It's non-sensical for us to compare a Prius C to a C7, unless they're both being used in the same way. If they're both commuters, then you can plainly say the Corvette gets poor fuel economy. It's all relative. Also, the argument about X MPG highway is entirely academic; I'd prefer to use Fuelly statistics as they're some sample of real world. There you can see most C6's average 20 MPG, whereas most 86's average 27 MPG.

I suppose that's all slightly unfair to the Corvette, but then again, the world isn't a fair place. I was kind of hoping the bombshell for the C7 would've been an IMA Hybrid along with the new LT1, but most likely the average demographic isn't ready for that kind of "have your cake and eat it too" implementation.

Its important for GM to reach the CAFE goals. It's a world class sports car and it still doesn't bring down the average fleet fuel economy that much. Politics.

[Ryephile]

Low production is an excuse for unremarkable fuel economy? Hardly. The Corvette team has consciously chosen to give the car more power and then throw some tech in it to recover some FE so it's not a politically embarrassing gas guzzler. With the low total drag and tall top gear the Corvette's had for a while now, the only thing holding back FE is the lump under the hood and the baby boomers behind the checkbooks. Yes the cylinder deactivation will help, but how much is TBD.

[Rayme]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Low production is an excuse for unremarkable fuel economy? Hardly. The Corvette team has consciously chosen to give the car more power and then throw some tech in it to recover some FE so it's not a politically embarrassing gas guzzler. With the low total drag and tall top gear the Corvette's had for a while now, the only thing holding back FE is the lump under the hood and the baby boomers behind the checkbooks. Yes the cylinder deactivation will help, but how much is TBD.

unremarkable fuel economy? 450 HP in an engine that is still responsive and fun to drive.. you can't have both. You're asking the impossible.

28 MPG highway, that's what the old featherweight 1.6 DOHC CIVIC SI was rated on the highway...an engine almost with almost 4 times smaller displacement.

[Guff]

I think the real question here is when we are getting a Turbo 4. V8s are just too played out.

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Big OHV V8s will never set torque/ or power/displacement records, but damned if they don't work BRILLIANTLY

But damn if they're not boring while they do it. I did the big V8 thing (LS6) and after the novelty wore off, I found that it put down power so effortlessly as to leave me wanting. I couldn't have ANY fun without immediately being at "go to jail" speeds. Is it possible they're so good that they've become uninspiring?

Not talking trash, just being honest and want to hear from the guys with more experience with these powerplants. Outside the usual remarks about how fast they are... what about their feel / character / etc speaks to you?

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by Guff

I think the real question here is when we are getting a Turbo 4. V8s are just too played out.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by ottopilot

unremarkable fuel economy? 450 HP in an engine that is still responsive and fun to drive.. you can't have both. You're asking the impossible....

I'm not coming close to asking for anything impossible, and if you think I am you're rather detached from current-gen automotive tech. I literally can't talk about next-gen automotive, but this is all probable without any notable R&D budget. What needs to happen is the OEM management needs to pull their collective heads from their arse and give a damn about technical progress. There's no technical reason to not have a hybrid Corvette that gets at least 30 MPG combined EPA. The only excuse is management laziness and the owner demographic preferring their horseless carriage buggy to a high-tech flagship.

Smaller displacement 350HP V8 with flexible enough valvetrain to do both Otto high-load and simulated Atkinson low-load + 100HP IMA + current 7MT = more powertrain efficiency at all operational points.

Originally Posted by bestwheelbase

.... I couldn't have ANY fun without immediately being at "go to jail" speeds. ....

This comes back to the oft forgot fun factor during vehicle bench-marking and development. Just because you can add power, doesn't make it a good idea. It's exactly why a Miata will likely always be more fun to drive than a Corvette, despite the Corvette lapping the same track practically a light-year quicker.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by bestwheelbase

But damn if they're not boring while they do it. I did the big V8 thing (LS6) and after the novelty wore off, I found that it put down power so effortlessly as to leave me wanting. I couldn't have ANY fun without immediately being at "go to jail" speeds. Is it possible they're so good that they've become uninspiring?

Not talking trash, just being honest and want to hear from the guys with more experience with these powerplants. Outside the usual remarks about how fast they are... what about their feel / character / etc speaks to you?

exactly my response to this too, i had a LS1 in my first 87 rx7 for about 5 months before i sold it. it was growly, it was powerful, it was every little boys dream, and it was completely useless. I couldn't have fun with it. Maybe the first month or so when i was burning rubber through parking lots, and doing the obligatory light to light launches. but that's not real fun, its just play time. Of course this is what happens on public roads and on the street. Having the v8 at the track was pretty good though, but i was completely saddened after month 4 that the only real fun i had in a 400hp rx7 was twice at a road course. Eventually sold it, bought a turboii rx7 and it was infinity more fun on public roads without doing anything illegal.

[sikest]

This is exactly why I traded my slightly modified 450HP C6 Corvette on the FR-S. The power and speed that car made was awe inspiring for the first year but I soon found myself bored driving a fast car slow all the time. Then there is the arrest factor, floor that car at 80mph to pass someone and in the time it took to go around them you were in 125mph territory. Likewise taking it to the track didn't work because even your track speeds are so high you really need a cage and other mods to be safe. Still an amazing car to drive but it certainly curbed my desire for a super car some day. You can have a hell of a lot of fun rowing the gears on a FR-S or a Miata for a little bit of money.

Oh, cant forget the C6 seats. They are not as bad as many make them out to be but they are pretty close.

Originally Posted by bestwheelbase

But damn if they're not boring while they do it. I did the big V8 thing (LS6) and after the novelty wore off, I found that it put down power so effortlessly as to leave me wanting. I couldn't have ANY fun without immediately being at "go to jail" speeds. Is it possible they're so good that they've become uninspiring?

Not talking trash, just being honest and want to hear from the guys with more experience with these powerplants. Outside the usual remarks about how fast they are... what about their feel / character / etc speaks to you?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

LOL, I wouldn't say opposite, but the point of fuel economy is entirely relative.

Of course. I'm saying that *relative* to any other 450hp, near-120-in-the-1/4 sports car, the Corvette gets very good gas mileage.

I'd prefer to use Fuelly statistics as they're some sample of real world. There you can see most C6's average 20 MPG, whereas most 86's average 27 MPG.
I suppose that's all slightly unfair to the Corvette, but then again, the world isn't a fair place.

Of course the 2.0 liter 200hp 4-cyl 2750 lb. car gets better real-world mileage than the 6.2 liter 450hp v8 3350 lb. car.

But note that while median mileage reported for the Corvette is 22mpg on fuelly, median for Porsche 911 is 18mpg. The Corvette does *very* well, relatively, vs. other high-hp sports/supercars.

I was kind of hoping the bombshell for the C7 would've been an IMA Hybrid along with the new LT1, but most likely the average demographic isn't ready for that kind of "have your cake and eat it too" implementation.

I would be interested in a "mild hybrid" *option*, with the IMA as both starter and alternator for the car, with a very small battery pack.

I would expect most if not all ICE cars will become very mild hybrids over the years to come. Recovering braking energy = very good idea...