Advanced driving.

[chas3wba0]

Originally Posted by Luis_GT

Just because you suck at heel toe downshifting doesn't mean it's unsafe on public roads. In fact it helps slow down the car in a more linear fasion and helps conserve brake pads.

You don't even need to have revs above 3K to use heel toe downshifts, or have to blast through corners. I use it to come to stops at red lights (6 to 3rd gear) which with your "advance driving" would cause wheel lock up or a nice burnt clutch.

Agreed, I find myself doing heel-toe any time I need to slow down quickly but accelerate immediately afterward, like when approaching clover-style freeway exits. Dangerous if I don't know what I'm doing? Sure, but highly efficient if I do know what I'm doing. As for using up my brain power... it's muscle memory at this point so that argument is invalid.

Rev-matching is a must for smooth downshifting. If you're driving around at RPM's low enough that you never have to rev match, then you're doing it wrong.

OP: I get what you're saying. 4k launches at every green light and trying to clip the apex at every corner on the street is silly and unnecessary, but rev-matching and heel-toe are totally usable, let alone preferred, on the street under the right circumstances. Part of the magic of our cars is that we can do all these things at legal speeds and get a blast out of it.

[Teseo]

I sit my daugher on my lap meanwhile driving, she can turn the car until i finish texting.

[stugray]

I'll add another log to the fire even though I understand the OPs point of view.

If you develop driving habits correctly and right away, you will use these habits subconsciously using "muscle memory" eventually.
Once you have a good habit, you can perform those habits (even if they are complex) automatically and take very little extra conscious "CPU load" on the brain.

When teaching my son to drive stick, he would ask me questions about clutch timing or shifting, and I honesty would tell him "I dont know let me drive and you watch".
I honestly didnt know how I did certain things until I did them again.

Even after almost 20 years of not driving a porsche 914, the first time out on the track and I was heel-toeing like it was old-hat, but I didnt even notice until my passenger mentioned it. When I started thinking about it again, I could not do it right. I developed that skill over 20 years ago to keep my college 914 from stalling....

So anyone who can drive a stick smoothly is performing some kind of "rev match" whether they understand it or not.

I did not even realize that I almost imperceptibly "blip" the throttle in certain places while shifting until I looked at log.

[litemup]

Originally Posted by kavanagh

Louis, Fernando and I all disagree with this entire thread because we drive with two pedals.

Paddle shift for the win.

[Canehda]

This is the funniest thing I have read in a long time on this forum, of all the realistic ways to procrastinate studying for my exams this has to be by far the best!

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Smoke Destructer

I don't understand how going 10 mph in 5th gear is a good idea. What if something happens and you need to get out of the way? You have zero power on tap, so you'd have to shift into a lower gear, which takes up time you should be using to get out of the way. Would it not be better to just always be in the proper gear for the speed you're traveling? This is why rev matching is important. Hell, heel-toe is also great for that sort of thing. Those techniques are used so that you can always be traveling in an appropriate gear.

By that reasoning a slow car like a Honda Fit or Geo Metro is a major road hazard because they don't accelerate quickly enough. Might as well not use 6th gear at all because not enough power even at freeway speed. Shifting is easy and fast, that's what your gearbox is designed to do.

[Amaya]

I just want to say I agree with just about everything in the OP. With the disclaimer that just because it's true doesn't mean you have to follow it, so don't get butt hurt because you don't do it that way. I like pushing my car on the road (not every drive, all drive but more often than not). I push it a lot further than most people but I know the cars limits and on the street I always stay far enough from the very limit as to be able to respond to unexpected situations. And I also recognize that there is an increased chance of something going wrong or not being able to react enough compared to "proper driving"and I fully accept it.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Amaya

I just want to say I agree with just about everything in the OP. With the disclaimer that just because it's true doesn't mean you have to follow it, so don't get butt hurt because you don't do it that way. I like pushing my car on the road (not every drive, all drive but more often than not). I push it a lot further than most people but I know the cars limits and on the street I always stay far enough from the very limit as to be able to respond to unexpected situations. And I also recognize that there is an increased chance of something going wrong or not being able to react enough compared to "proper driving"and I fully accept it.

Get great mileage I bet!

[Amaya]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Get great mileage I bet!

Lolz, haven't had to push it like that yet :p
Usually get 28mpg +/-2 not as good as my old '91 civic which averaged in the mid 40's but not bad for a car with more than twice the power and an extra 900+ pounds

[daiheadjai]

FWIW (hopefully not to add fuel to the fire), as I drove the slick and icy roads today (we had some nice snowfall last night, and the plows have only gone through the highways), I found one situation where engine braking is pretty useful.

As you approach a curve or stop, down shifting via rev match (so as not to unsettle the car) is a great way to slow down without shifting weight forward too much.
As our car has front-bias under braking, it seems this is a smoother, safer way to slow down.

Might try to test this out in a big empty parking lot....

[stugray]

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

FWIW (hopefully not to add fuel to the fire), as I drove the slick and icy roads today (we had some nice snowfall last night, and the plows have only gone through the highways), I found one situation where engine braking is pretty useful.

As you approach a curve or stop, down shifting via rev match (so as not to unsettle the car) is a great way to slow down without shifting weight forward too much.
As our car has front-bias under braking, it seems this is a smoother, safer way to slow down.

Might try to test this out in a big empty parking lot....

Your experience may differ, but in my experience (> 30 years driving in the snow), downshifting when it is slick is not necessary and can easily upset the car and induce a spin.
With this car (and nannies ON), it is not too bad because if you downshift to abruptly, the TC will engage and stop a spin.

The method I have found best for driving in the snow is to always shift early (keep the torque to the wheels low) almost to the point of bogging the engine down, and never downshift. Just use the brakes.

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by stugray

Your experience may differ, but in my experience (> 30 years driving in the snow), downshifting when it is slick is not necessary and can easily upset the car and induce a spin.
With this car (and nannies ON), it is not too bad because if you downshift to abruptly, the TC will engage and stop a spin.

The method I have found best for driving in the snow is to always shift early (keep the torque to the wheels low) almost to the point of bogging the engine down, and never downshift. Just use the brakes.

+1 on limiting torque by shifting up early.
TC off can be useful in some situations (i.e. when you are trying to start moving or making a tight low speed turn)

[eddieflyinv]

Originally Posted by stugray

Your experience may differ, but in my experience (> 30 years driving in the snow), downshifting when it is slick is not necessary and can easily upset the car and induce a spin.
With this car (and nannies ON), it is not too bad because if you downshift to abruptly, the TC will engage and stop a spin.

The method I have found best for driving in the snow is to always shift early (keep the torque to the wheels low) almost to the point of bogging the engine down, and never downshift. Just use the brakes.

to each their own, but id never suggest not downshifting. rev match downshift is my prefered way of driving to avoid upsetting the rear of the car.
to never downshift is a bad idea, to much time floating in neutral and youre not in full control of the car if youre not in a gear