Pulling to the Right, Rear Alignment Issue? Or something Else?

[TheFugitiveMind]

UPDATE POST #11

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...1&postcount=11



I have an interesting issue with the car pulling heavy to the right after several alignments. Wondering if you guys have had a similar issue or can help diagnose.

The car is currently pulling to the right in any conditions on the freeways or streets, the car wont track straight also need to turn the wheel to the left 1-2 degrees to drive straight. Ive gotten 2 alignments and still no resolution.

I see some easy fixes to begin the process of singling out the issue:

1) SPC Rear Lower Control Arms to correct the rear camber
2) Replace Front Control Arms with New OEM or aftermarket spherical. The rear bushing design I think is flawed and have seen failures on 08+ STIs that share the same design.

Is there anything else I should be looking for? Would the rear camber difference cause the car to pull to the right?


2013 BRZ Limited - 70% DD / 30% HPDE Track Days

Blistein B14
25mm Lowered Front
28mm Lowered Rear
Corner Balanced
Whiteline Rear Subframe Bushings
All other suspension components stock.

255/40/17 Maxxis VR1
17x8 +35 Front
17x9 +35 Rear
33PSI all tires
7/32nd and even wear all the way around


Current Alignment Specs

Front

LF Camber: -1.7
RF Camber: -1.7

LF Caster: 5.6
RF Caster: 5.6

LF Toe: 0.00
RF Toe: 0.00

Total Toe Front: 0.00
Steer Ahead: 0.00

Rear

LR Camber: -2.0
RR Camber: -2.8

LR Toe: -0.03
RR Toe: -0.01

Total Toe Rear: -0.04
Thrust Angle: -0.01

Thanks!

[Turdinator]

Before you go swapping parts, were both alignments done by the same place? Has the steering wheel ever been removed? Are there any new clunks, bangs or rattles you've noticed recently?

[TheFugitiveMind]

The first alignment was done at a different place. Steering wheel has not been removed to my knowledge and no new clunks or rattles.

This is a relatively new issue and started to occur after a TrackDay in October. I’m planning to take it back to the shop that did the alignment and see what they say.

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by TheFugitiveMind

Would the rear camber difference cause the car to pull to the right?

Definitely. I just resolved a problem I was having with my handling and the front toe difference between left and right was 0.05. Straightened that out and it completely fixed the issue. You have more camber on the right and the car is pulling right, makes sense to me.

[churchx]

Given that you had done few alignments, from that i'm guessing that at least pressure in all tires is same & even (every competent alignment tech should check that first prior starting aligning) and steering wheel was also set straight during alignment and those guys probably should have pointed up if some bushing looks shot?

From alignment, toe difference between sides most commonly can affect not tracking straight. Camber differences should affect mostly in turns or on cambered road itself or in some longitudinal road grooves. But usually way less so on normal straight road. Toe affects handling a lot, more so then camber, there is reason why our cars (and most of others) have toe adjustment in stock, but camber - not (w/o aftermarket parts). Ensure toe set right, unevenness or wrong camber settings introduce handling artifacts to lesser extent.

Then again, i wonder, wtf with rear toe-out("-"value). There is slight toe-in("+"value) in OE alignment, it's common in alignment of rwd cars in general, and many leave slight toe-in even in performance/track alignments, to stabilize a bit car when accelerating in straight line or out of corner. Instead of OE zero front toe, slight toe-out in front might be preference of some (at very least i'd try to ensure it's even side to side), but rear .. at very least zero toe, but better some toe-in (eg. +0.1dg each wheel), and obviously, also even side to side, closer the better.

BTW, all wheels spin freely? No excessive wheel bearing noise or noticeable brake drag? Not always alignment at fault, though there are lot of things i dislike in yours, especially unevenness of toe and rear toe-out.

[TheFugitiveMind]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

Definitely. I just resolved a problem I was having with my handling and the front toe difference between left and right was 0.05. Straightened that out and it completely fixed the issue. You have more camber on the right and the car is pulling right, makes sense to me.

That was my initial thought as well. I’ll need those SPC rear control arms if I want to correct the rear camber.

Originally Posted by churchx

Given that you had done few alignments, from that i'm guessing that at least pressure in all tires is same & even (every competent alignment tech should check that first prior starting aligning) and steering wheel was also set straight during alignment and those guys probably should have pointed up if some bushing looks shot?

From alignment, toe difference between sides most commonly can affect not tracking straight. Camber differences should affect mostly in turns or on cambered road itself or in some longitudinal road grooves. But usually way less so on normal straight road. Toe affects handling a lot, more so then camber, there is reason why our cars (and most of others) have toe adjustment in stock, but camber - not (w/o aftermarket parts). Ensure toe set right, unevenness or wrong camber settings introduce handling artifacts to lesser extent.

Then again, i wonder, wtf with rear toe-out("-"value). There is slight toe-in("+"value) in OE alignment, it's common in alignment of rwd cars in general, and many leave slight toe-in even in performance/track alignments, to stabilize a bit car when accelerating in straight line or out of corner. Instead of OE zero front toe, slight toe-out in front might be preference of some (at very least i'd try to ensure it's even side to side), but rear .. at very least zero toe, but better some toe-in (eg. +0.1dg each wheel), and obviously, also even side to side, closer the better.

BTW, all wheels spin freely? No excessive wheel bearing noise or noticeable brake drag? Not always alignment at fault, though there are lot of things i dislike in yours, especially unevenness of toe and rear toe-out.

Yeah the rear toe they couldn’t get to 0 but I’m thinking they were lazy. Even though it’s slightly off I didn’t think it was gonna affect it that much. But maybe the combination of the rear camber and the toe off that could be contributing to pulling to the right.

This is my steering wheel driving straight not 5 miles after the alignment.

[norcalpb]

I’ve heard adding a little front right castor can help fight the crown in the road.

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by TheFugitiveMind

...This is a relatively new issue and started to occur after a TrackDay in October...

Any offs or were you riding the curbs? My gut is suggesting you damaged something that isn't showing up in a static alignment.

[TheFugitiveMind]

Originally Posted by Turdinator

Any offs or were you riding the curbs? My gut is suggesting you damaged something that isn't showing up in a static alignment.

I was definitely riding curbs and that would be my thoughts as well.

I’ll need to lift it up and inspect all the control arms and bushings

[black bnr32]

Happened to me. Your total toe on the rear could be offset to the left. Add toe in on the left wheel and toe out on the right. The car is crab walking.

[TheFugitiveMind]

Installed whiteline rear lower control arms and got it re aligned. Happy to report that steering wheel is centered and tracks straight. For now...

I do have the SPC crash bolts of the front (upper position) has any of you guys experienced it slipping? I had them on my 2005 WRX back in the day and they would always slip which is why I’m kinda against those and would rather have plates.

[churchx]

TheFugitiveMind: properly torqued camberbolts imho don't slip .. at least not if there has been strong enough hit to suspension to also bend or shear something. But for ease of mind you can apply some loctite/fingernail polish/paint, to "glue" it and prevent any slippage for certain. Or paint stripe over head to see if it has been moved since past alignment.

[TheFugitiveMind]

Originally Posted by churchx

TheFugitiveMind: properly torqued camberbolts imho don't slip .. at least not if there has been strong enough hit to suspension to also bend or shear something. But for ease of mind you can apply some loctite/fingernail polish/paint, to "glue" it and prevent any slippage for certain. Or paint stripe over head to see if it has been moved since past alignment.

Yeah makes sense, after the alignment I went back in and made sure they were torqued to spec and I also marked them. I do track the car and I often run the curbing, so maybe in my case they would slip?

[churchx]

Well, should work just fine for most including ones that track.
But if i may suggest, that while that extra -1.3dg front camber is obviously better then "nothing", better then rather understeer-biased OE alignment of 0dg front camber, if you do track car on regular basis, it seems insufficient for even contact patch, to not rip mostly outside of tires. Most that track twins usually go for something like -3 to -3.5dg front camber and -2.5dg rear. I also don't like uneven rear toe, that even is toe-out on right side. In left turns you may see excessive oversteer, also under floored gas, especially if with lack of grip, you may see tendency of car rear to always slip to right.