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Old 11-16-2012, 06:14 AM   #43
TwinRz
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Originally Posted by zooki View Post
Show me an independent dyno test of this intake. So far the only dyno chart I have seen is from the manufacturer's website. I bet Airaids dyno chart showed a gain with their intake also. Same thing with Works. You have to remember that at speed the whole area in front of the radiator is a higher pressure zone because air won't flow as fast throughout the radiator / A/C condenser as will flow through the grill opening. I wonder what the area of the opening in the front of the filter box is compared to the throttle body or the airflow sensor. I wonder which one actually has the smallest cross section. That will tell you where the restriction lies.
Big difference when you compare an after market intake versus an intake that uses an intake duct that increases airflow without messing with the OEM design. Every intake out changes the design by moving the MAF, taking out the air straightners and lots of other things that affect the out come. With these 2 intakes you atleast know what your getting and wont have to worry about it losing power if you install it. Syms Racing isnt a company you would need to second guess unlike other companies who havent been around that long.

Lots of other cars have similar designs that all use the stock air boxes that usually out perform any intake on the market for that car. S2k's have a lot of intakes designed that way that get great gains. Even though it isnt an independent dyno I wouldnt have a problem trusting a company like Syms Racing that have made similar intakes on other cars. Their is no way that it will lose power like the Airaid which would need tuning and to need seperate testing to prove itself. With an intake like this or the Syms you at least know it wont be losing power just because it keeps the OEM air box. Anyone with common sense can see that especially when tons of other cars have used the same concept and gotten gains similar to other aftermarket CAI's made for those cars if not better. A well known company with the reputation they have like Syms Racing wouldnt release a product that doesnt do anything, ESPECIALLY at that cost.... They arent a company that is known to do that. Their are companies that have a reputation of releasing products that do gain power/serve a purpose unlike some who dont do the proper R&D and this is one of them. That would be like Perrin doing the same it would ruin their reputation. I wouldnt expect nearly the same results but I definately would expect to see some increases that would be competitive with other after market intakes. If the person wants they can even push it further by complimenting it with other things that you can already do to the OEM air box.

Every dyno is different and what affects it can be many variables so dynos will always vary even if it was from a vendor to an independent person so you dont know if they bump their dynos up a bit.But to think such an intake would reduce power when its using the stock set up or not get any gains at all is absurd. If anything the Max Racing Duct it will gain a little power like all intakes in the higher RPM's, just dont expect comparable numbers versus a true CAI. Almost every intake on the market when dynod show little to no gain until you get to the higher RPM's. Gains that you would not notice with everyday driving.

And to people commenting on hydro lock youd have to be a retard to end up driving your car through something like that. Use your brain.

Last edited by TwinRz; 11-16-2012 at 06:32 AM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:49 AM   #44
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So, is it:
Quote from TwinRz "Just because your other car that had a similar mod didnt perform well doesnt mean this duct will be the same. Different cars man."
or:
Quote from TwinRz "Lots of other cars have similar designs that all use the stock air boxes that usually out perform any intake on the market for that car. S2k's have a lot of intakes designed that way that get great gains.

and:
Quote from TwinRz "Anyone with common sense can see that especially when tons of other cars have used the same concept and gotten gains similar to other aftermarket CAI's made for those cars if not better."
or:
Quote from TwinRz " If anything the Max Racing Duct it will gain a little power like all intakes in the higher RPM's, just dont expect comparable numbers versus a true CAI."

Truly, your logic is dizzying.(:

But, again, it's your money. Like Ronald Reagan said back in the day "Trust, but verify".

Last edited by zooki; 11-16-2012 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:00 PM   #45
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3 problems with this intake.

It blocks the heat exchangers.
Just 200mm of water will start a bow wave that could fill the intake.
It's picking up turbulent air rather than more stable high pressure air, which could actually lower power at high speed.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:43 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by sierra View Post
3 problems with this intake.

It blocks the heat exchangers.
Just 200mm of water will start a bow wave that could fill the intake.
It's picking up turbulent air rather than more stable high pressure air, which could actually lower power at high speed.
It doesn't block anymore than a FMIC
8" of water is more than i ever drive through
"could" lower power at high speed, no proof here either try again.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:55 PM   #47
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Last I checked air flows through a fmic.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:55 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by dorifuto View Post
The vortech fmic would not allow this to fit.
The Vortech Super Charger on the site even says that the intake will fit the oem part. I dont see why this wouldnt fit if the oem air scoop fits onto the s/c's intake.

"Stylized airbox and filter housing design allows for additional flow, while retaining the factory cold air ram intake. Quick release fasteners allow for simple access to filter for change/cleaning."

directly from the site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sierra View Post
3 problems with this intake.

It blocks the heat exchangers.
Just 200mm of water will start a bow wave that could fill the intake.
It's picking up turbulent air rather than more stable high pressure air, which could actually lower power at high speed.
Like a poster said earlier who has a similar set up on his S2K. The S2k has a TON of intakes like this and they all give a noticeable difference in power. Just because this intakes design isnt like what most intakes on these forums look like doesnt mean it will not work. Even though some posters said that most intakes that are developed for this are placed in a spot in the engine where their is the no heat or the least amount. I highly doubt that just because an intake is placed there and is your usual cone intake it will be a better mod then this... Their might be less heat but poor designing of an intake will make it lose power, the Airaid is a perfect example.. The Airaid loses power most likely because of a poor design allowing it to suck in more hot air like what another poster noted in another thread.

If anything this costing only 2-300 bucks it might add 2-5 whp at most. Throw a Drop in filter in their that will probably add another 3-4 whp. Otherwise if it doesnt it will atleast give better throttle response and IMO would be a lot better then your typical intakes that use alluminum/metal tubing that will soak more heat and get similar results as a drop in filter even LOSE power. At least this duct gets air from a cooler part of the car, not behind the radiator. I doubt it will be huge gains but it definitely make a difference at higher RPM's. With tuning it could probably do better just like how every intake currently made for this car right now can. But every intake so far that we have seen just like on other cars they only produce better power up top and just provide better sound.

Like many people have said that current intakes on the market ARE NOT WORTH GETTING and that a drop in filter would provide better performance then most intakes on the market, besides the Injen. Like I said earlier WORKS claims 10 whp and have claimed higher numbers on other cars that have been independently tested by their customers that did perform close to what they said. So that is enough for me to choose a product like them for my car, of course I would do my own testing after I purchase it but when their other similar parts on other cars have been tested by other people and did what they said I would trust that company enough to buy the part. If it isnt 10 whp but still provides a good upgrade it wouldnt of been money wasted. Vendor Dynos are their to show you that their parts are indeed an upgrade dont always expect it to do as well since all dynos are different with so many other variables involved, in any dyno numbers.. But the Injen intake I believe is causing bogging issues that need to be fixed with tuning if what I read is correct. If you get a tune though then go with the Injen. Which is why I also believe that a drop in filter would be the best performance upgrade if you are looking to choose an intake. I read from Gmookher that the Injen gets higher gains because of the MAF placement that leans it out a lot.

This duct, Works drop in, and a Zeta/AVO silicone tube would cost just as much as other intakes on the market. Which I would trust a lot more then other companies intakes that mess with the location of the MAF and have to trust their design versus going with OEM parts that can be improved with simple items. You dont even need to use a WORKS drop in and use a Perrin, HKS, TRD, or K&N drop in. Altogether it would only cost maybe 4-500 bucks which is ussually what a quality intake costs. If you dont get the silicone intake tube then it will probably be around 3-400 which is the price range of most intakes on the market. I would just keep the OEM tubing though since I plan to upgrade to a s/c in the future which is more money spent saving for that. Unless someone in the classified section is selling their silicone tubing.

How about you show me any intake on the market right now that will out perform a drop in filter in this car, besides an Injen. Current dynos on the big well known intakes have been done in a thread, AFE Takeda I believe got 3-6 whp, INJEN got 8-11 whp, Airaid got -6 whp. All the drops in Dyno'd by Drift Office got 4-5 WHP depending if it was oiled or dry. The Takeda did do better but I would not spend 200-300 more just because it 1-2 WHP while losing a little at the lower RPM's. Now compare the drop ins pricing versus a Takeda for example. You get the same performance for the price of a drop in and then could compliment it and improve the performance by changing the snorkel to this air duct for the same price possibly cheaper then those intakes listed.. Also the drop ins dont lose any power down low unlike some intakes that lose a little power at the lower RPM's if you check out the dynos. A company like Syms ussualy dont rush out products like many other companys they actually do proper R&D and rarely rush products out just to be first to make money. They already charge a lot for their products and ussually when companies do its to cover r&d and production costs.

Last edited by TwinRz; 11-16-2012 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:01 PM   #49
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It doesn't block anymore than a FMIC
8" of water is more than i ever drive through
"could" lower power at high speed, no proof here either try again.
A FMIC flows air, this thing blocks the air, there's a big difference.

You don't know how deep it is until you test it and it's driving at speed into water, accidently that could kiss the engine goodbye. Is it worth the risk for something that has more negatives than positives?

It's common practice to place intakes so that they pick up stable air as turbulent air is bad news for flow. You need an area of stable high pressure air.

This is definitely rice.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:02 PM   #50
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You don't see how a big ass intake behind the front bumper will block the fmic? The vortech blower is designed to work with the oem intake. The intake this debate is about isn't oem.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:03 PM   #51
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http://blog.perrinperformance.com/wp...m2-550x366.jpg
Stock
http://86tech.com/forums/attachment....5&d=1351098766
Vortech fmic

Last edited by dorifuto; 11-16-2012 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:50 PM   #52
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Ya you are right, I just saw that picture in the Perrin thread. Totally forgot about that part. Hopefully if something similar comes out it wont be placed in that same spot though. Like the Syms Racing Intake duct placed higher instead of lower to the ground. Now if the Syms Racing Intake was just the part that fit the OEM air box that would be golden.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:57 PM   #53
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As new as this car is the aftermarket is already huge. In time I bet we will see all kinds of cool stuff.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:05 PM   #54
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I don't know, a 10 HP difference on a 200 HP motor is, what, a 5% difference? I would consider that within the statistical margin of error personally. Especially on a chassis dyno that isn't environmentslly controlled like an engine dyno. I always take these dyno charts that show a 3 HP or whatever gain with a grain of salt. I don't think any of these "intakes" will add much really, not enough to really feel. Not when the stock intake already pulls air from a high pressure, cool area. Of course, if I dropped 300-400 bones on one I would definitely "feel" it, even if I didn't. A friend of mine used to refer to this as the "I washed my car and now it's faster" syndrome. When you really want to believe that the money you just spent wasn't wasted....(:
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:16 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zooki View Post
So, is it:
Quote from TwinRz "Just because your other car that had a similar mod didnt perform well doesnt mean this duct will be the same. Different cars man."
or:
Quote from TwinRz "Lots of other cars have similar designs that all use the stock air boxes that usually out perform any intake on the market for that car. S2k's have a lot of intakes designed that way that get great gains.

and:
Quote from TwinRz "Anyone with common sense can see that especially when tons of other cars have used the same concept and gotten gains similar to other aftermarket CAI's made for those cars if not better."
or:
Quote from TwinRz " If anything the Max Racing Duct it will gain a little power like all intakes in the higher RPM's, just dont expect comparable numbers versus a true CAI."

Truly, your logic is dizzying.(:

But, again, it's your money. Like Ronald Reagan said back in the day "Trust, but verify".



Read what I said.. I said other cars who have used it got great results, but obviously you cant expect it to perform as well as other cars since they are different from the BRz/FR-S. Those intakes use the same concepts but we dont know how well this would work on this car but we do know it is a proven on other cars that it does indeed add power...and also said that this car could get similar results but just dont expect it to do as well as the vendors that have developed similar intake ducts for this car (GruppeM / Syms Racing)

Obviously this is a poor mans version of a GruppeM intake concept and the Syms. Which both cost TONS more. Just dont expect it to do as well as those products or what other cars put out with simialr set ups. Basically what I was trying to point out was just dont expect this to do nothing like some posters said, but just dont expect it to perform as well as other top end intakes that use the same type of concept. IMO this intake would probably add a couple of horses just like the AFE Takeda(3-6whp), I would consider this a more affordable intake for people who would like to have an intake that is similar to those that aer more expensive designs with carbon fiber. But dont want to pay that much just cause of how much it cost for the company to produce it ( Carbon Fiber is ussually made per order ) and the R&D it pays for.

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Originally Posted by zooki View Post
I don't know, a 10 HP difference on a 200 HP motor is, what, a 5% difference? I would consider that within the statistical margin of error personally. Especially on a chassis dyno that isn't environmentslly controlled like an engine dyno. I always take these dyno charts that show a 3 HP or whatever gain with a grain of salt. I don't think any of these "intakes" will add much really, not enough to really feel. Not when the stock intake already pulls air from a high pressure, cool area. Of course, if I dropped 300-400 bones on one I would definitely "feel" it, even if I didn't. A friend of mine used to refer to this as the "I washed my car and now it's faster" syndrome. When you really want to believe that the money you just spent wasn't wasted....(:
We dont know if that motor had any other work done on it or if it had an exhaust or other parts on the car. Syms is after all making a whole set of parts for the Twins and it possibly could of had a tune alreay made for it when this car was dyno'd. What we do know is that they tested it and it got results which is more then enough to prove to someone to buy the part. Not every company releases bullshit dynos to make a sale like some (vivid/ap). Syms is a reputable company that is has been around long enough for us to be able to trust their dynos and know they arent full of shit. They dont have a bad history like Vivid/AP.

Japan does use different dynos so that could very well be why it has such an impressive gain. But the Injen intake even did similar numbers with their intake. They got I believe 11 WHP on one of the threads on this section. But I wouldnt doubt that the SYMS Racing Intake with a full I/H/E and tune will get those results if anything it will be pretty darn close I bet. It seems like companies that do sufficient R&D on their products, intake wise, seem to get very good results. Just look at Perrins blog, they have great results from their true CAI. So far this car has yet to see a CAI that is placed like Perrins. Every intake so far made has been put behind the radiator under the hood. Perrins claims if I remember correctly 11-12 whp and maybe more with a tune. I know it was a pretty high number just for an intake though. I am not surprised that their in take did that well. Since they are the only ones who have made an intake like that. That is why I believe the Syms Racing Intakes numbers are believable since it does get more air from a cooler part of the car. Now this intake I am not sure that it would get the same numbers but I dont agree with the people that say this intake wont work since their is nothing dynamic about it in their eyes. If drop in filters can get 3-5 whp I dont see how the syms cant get more with an improved wider area to catch more air.

Last edited by TwinRz; 11-16-2012 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:08 PM   #56
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The SYMS racing intake uses practically the same concept. If any of you have ever owned an S2K then you would know that the best performing intakes on the S2K are actually intakes that are very similar to SYMS and this one. They use ducts that catch more air infront of the car rather then short ram style ones that sit in the engine bay.

This maybe just a duct but the SYMS racing intake is the same thing only changing the scoop to a wider one. This will probably perform a little less then the SYMS/Gruppe M but you get what you pay for. The Gruppe M after e-mailing them told me that they got about 10-13 WHP and 8-10 WHP on a dynapack. The Syms Racing Intake got 8 WHP and 10 WTQ. So expect this to do somewhere around that neighborhood also. But I would expect this to maybe get a little less then the others. Probably comparable to an AFE intake.

These also can be upgraded with new silicone tubing replacing the OEM one and a drop in filter for even better performance. I have owned an S2K with intake ducts just like this and let me tell you the SYMS and Gruppe M both are probably the best on the market for this car right now if it werent for there high price tag. This is the most affordable of the 3 that probably out performs all the other intakes on the market. Dont forget that the AFE takeda intake was dyno'd with the hood open, so in real world driving conditions expect it to be a little less just like how the INJEN did with the hood closed.

Hands down I will be getting either this or the SYMS racing intake. For 300 dollars you can expect it to be a lot better of an investment versus other intakes on the market and this still can be improved on with other parts for even better performance. People who need to worry about hydro locking... Well sucks for you you live in a state that rains a lot. In Southern California it rarely rains. Youd have to be an idiot to drive over a huge flooded area.
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