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Old 04-05-2018, 02:42 PM   #1
Stonewall
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2nd Gear Grind

Hey guys, just wondering if any of you are experiencing a 2nd gear grind? And was it remedied under warranty? Im in the GTA and a certain dealership just flat out denied that anything was wrong with my car, especially the mechanic who was with me in the car when we both heard it grinding, lol. Service advisors have never heard of a 2nd grind issue with this car either. Seems as if they were coached about this issue because a little searching and Im seeing that it is a common problem. Maybe not enough affected units to issue a recall but definitely a common issue.

Car is a 2014 FRS, completely stock, currently has 19,400 kms and the issue became prevalent last year. I have switched to Amsoil Synchomesh and grinding still persists.

Since Im still under drivetrain warranty, I dont know why there would be this kind of resistance to get the car fixed. Id like to hear of some of your experiences with this issue and perhaps a recommendation to a dealer that is perhaps a bit more sensitive to this problem?

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Old 04-05-2018, 03:11 PM   #2
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Are you sure its an actual grind? My 2nd gear makes noises but its not grinding.
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Old 04-05-2018, 03:57 PM   #3
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Did you mention non OEM fluid? They could try to use that to deny covering the gearbox, but as long as it meets the standards you should be fine.

They don't want to fix it because it costs the dealership money to do warranty work.

I've only had 2nd gear actually grind a few times, but it clunks when cold.
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Old 04-05-2018, 06:18 PM   #4
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Did you mention non OEM fluid? They could try to use that to deny covering the gearbox, but as long as it meets the standards you should be fine.

They don't want to fix it because it costs the dealership money to do warranty work.

I've only had 2nd gear actually grind a few times, but it clunks when cold.
Oh god don't get me started on first and second in the cold..
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Old 04-05-2018, 06:52 PM   #5
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2nd gear is known to grind when cold. It happens to me too. Drive the car for 15-20 minutes and you'll probably find the grinding stops and shifting is smooth again. If so, this is expected behaviour. If it never goes away even after driving around for half an hour, then take the car back in.

I recall reading Toyota's official word on the known issue that they designed the transmission with really tight tolerances and they fall out of spec when it's too cold, hence the grinding. Anyways, if this is the case and you are still concerned, just skip 2nd when accelerating and go straight into 3rd... which is also known to grind when cold LOL.
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Old 04-05-2018, 09:00 PM   #6
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I had the second gear grind REALLY bad in the cold. I did take it to the dealer when I was around 60k and they gave me the combo answer of:

1. Its normal toyota gearbox noises
2. Its somehow my fault in how I drive
3. I need a new clutch (Which I later pulled and it was mint)

I've been running redline oil in the car and noticed some improvements with the oil change but my recommendation would be to avoid skipping second gear as that will just have you run first gear high or third gear low while the engine is ice cold.
Instead as you go to shift into second pause for a fraction of a second in the first/second neutral gate before you pull it into gear. You may actively have to force yourself to do this until you get used to it but after that you will do it without even knowing. Doing this nearly eliminated my second gear grind in the cold.

Interestingly enough though I don't even really do this anymore. After I installed the AEM strut brace with the master cylinder brace the shifts changed from a grind to a single clunk into gear.
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Old 04-05-2018, 10:45 PM   #7
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2nd gear hardness/noise/grind/clunk is normal. Just think of it as an endearing feature of this car and you'll enjoy it more

Pentosin MTF2 will be your best friend for easier 2nd gear shifts in this case.
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Old 04-06-2018, 01:03 AM   #8
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They don't want to fix it because it costs the dealership money to do warranty work.
umm thats not true, anything covered under warranty is paid for by corporate, the dealer does not loose money. in fact, doing warranty work usually makes dealerships more money vs doing the same work paid for by the customer as the dealer will charge corporate full rate vs cutting a deal on labor for the paying customer. the tough part is proving the issue is a defect not from negligence or driver error but from the manufacture, in which case the dealership will also need approval from corporate before it can be claimed as warranty work. as u can imagine, dealerships deal with many many customers who tries to get every and any little thing covered under warranty. the claim needs to be justifiable and if the claim is big enough, they may even send regional reps to verify the claim.
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Old 04-06-2018, 06:15 AM   #9
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umm thats not true, anything covered under warranty is paid for by corporate, the dealer does not loose money. in fact, doing warranty work usually makes dealerships more money vs doing the same work paid for by the customer as the dealer will charge corporate full rate vs cutting a deal on labor for the paying customer. the tough part is proving the issue is a defect not from negligence or driver error but from the manufacture, in which case the dealership will also need approval from corporate before it can be claimed as warranty work. as u can imagine, dealerships deal with many many customers who tries to get every and any little thing covered under warranty. the claim needs to be justifiable and if the claim is big enough, they may even send regional reps to verify the claim.
Hmmm, which means that dealerships have definitely been briefed by Corporate to brush this problem off at the first line.

I have been driving manual cars for almost 20 years as my daily drivers (Mostly HONDA ) and never had such a problem even at over 100k. With such a new car and low mileage as this, I think something is definitely wrong. Perhaps we can pursue this if enough people are interested. Ill think about my next course of action. Are there any threads on here dedicated to getting Toyota to issue a service bulletin for this?

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2nd gear hardness/noise/grind/clunk is normal. Just think of it as an endearing feature of this car and you'll enjoy it more

Pentosin MTF2 will be your best friend for easier 2nd gear shifts in this case.
2.2 Vtec is an endearing feature A little humour... or maybe not. lol.
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Old 04-06-2018, 08:17 AM   #10
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I also had my dealer look into this problem and said that 1st and 2nd gear noises are normal on this car. I had him give me the invoice that they checked just in case something goes wrong in the future, I can be like well hey I brought up the issue and u said it was normal...
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Old 04-06-2018, 09:07 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Hmmm, which means that dealerships have definitely been briefed by Corporate to brush this problem off at the first line.

I have been driving manual cars for almost 20 years as my daily drivers (Mostly HONDA ) and never had such a problem even at over 100k. With such a new car and low mileage as this, I think something is definitely wrong. Perhaps we can pursue this if enough people are interested. Ill think about my next course of action. Are there any threads on here dedicated to getting Toyota to issue a service bulletin for this?



2.2 Vtec is an endearing feature A little humour... or maybe not. lol.
Sloppy FWD linkages with all their rods and connectors hide all sorts of things.
You are now driving a direct linked RWD tranny that, as stated, has much closer tolerances. It is just when it is cold and as said is the way it is due to the precision of the parts.
Pursue what? The fact that they made a precision piece of equipment? What would a TSB fix? It isn't broke. A service bulletin isn't a statement that there is an issue or any kind of recall anyway. TSBs are simply instructions to the techs on how to fix an issue so having one issued (even if it could be "fixed") would not mean they have to do the work.
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Old 04-06-2018, 09:37 AM   #12
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My IS300, also made by Aisin would crunch into gears when cold. Honda MTF solved that on the IS. Honda MTF also solve cold shifting problems on my old Integra. The S2000 guys have threads on this topic too where they debate on what fluids are best. It's really not uncommon for cold manuals to be notchy when cold. My FRS has 85K on it now and although it crunches into 2nd when cold, it's not that bad. It isn't hard to get in and it isn't even a grind. I'm not even going to mess with it. I do live in Florida so cold for me isn't really cold for others.
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Old 04-06-2018, 01:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
I have been driving manual cars for almost 20 years as my daily drivers (Mostly HONDA ) and never had such a problem even at over 100k. With such a new car and low mileage as this, I think something is definitely wrong. Perhaps we can pursue this if enough people are interested. Ill think about my next course of action. Are there any threads on here dedicated to getting Toyota to issue a service bulletin for this?
I've driven my fair share of rsx/integras, civics & s2k's.. If you're coming from a Honda & expecting this car to idle & shift as smooth as those, you're gonna be disappointed. This car's got a lot more quirks you'll have to get used to.

This car came out in 2012 as a 2013 model.. If there hasn't been a service bulletin for the 2nd gear noise/harshness in the past 6 years, you've got no chance to get Toyota or Subaru to issue one now.
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