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Old 02-16-2021, 03:26 PM   #15
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I agree not good but he is leaking anyway. That was why i suggested true sealed first.
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Old 02-16-2021, 06:43 PM   #16
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I think a less expensive alternate to AGM would be an Optima battery. We use them in race boats all the time. An other far less elegant solution would be a battery with a drain line, dump it out under the car or in a can.
Optima batteries are AGM batteries.
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Old 02-17-2021, 09:31 AM   #17
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Interesting, red and blue are listed as glass matt and the yellow is listed as AGM on their web . Wonder what the difference is.
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Old 02-17-2021, 10:26 AM   #18
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AGM = Absorbent Glass Mat.
Don't think there is a difference. Whoever came up with what to put didn't use the same wording.
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Old 02-17-2021, 10:54 PM   #19
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My car sits all the time too, I have a plug in battery tender on it. The factory sized/replacement battery I had didn't last too long either.
Ah that's a problem in where I park my car, there's no outlet nearby where I can plug a battery tender.

I checked what AGM batteries are available locally, and I think the Optima is my best bet since they have a warranty here of 2 years. They don't have the "Yellow Top D35" available til April but they do have the "Red Top 35"

Batteries here don't often last more than 3 years because of the extremely hot weather. But I hope getting a new battery will fix this issue.

Also are optima batteries still any good, I heard they stopped making them in the USA so the quality isn't as great as they used to be? How long should the Red Top last me?
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Old 02-18-2021, 05:54 AM   #20
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Ah that's a problem in where I park my car, there's no outlet nearby where I can plug a battery tender.
Put a solar charger on your dash.
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Old 02-18-2021, 11:43 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delmar View Post
Ah that's a problem in where I park my car, there's no outlet nearby where I can plug a battery tender.

I checked what AGM batteries are available locally, and I think the Optima is my best bet since they have a warranty here of 2 years. They don't have the "Yellow Top D35" available til April but they do have the "Red Top 35"

Batteries here don't often last more than 3 years because of the extremely hot weather. But I hope getting a new battery will fix this issue.

Also are optima batteries still any good, I heard they stopped making them in the USA so the quality isn't as great as they used to be? How long should the Red Top last me?
The yellow and blue have a higher reserve capacity then red. The red has higher cold cranking amps and is a good battery if you have a hard to start engine(modified big block V8). Yellows are best if you have a lot of accessories(sub, pump for air suspension, winch). Red's also seem to be more sensitive to how they are charged and discharged. Yes, Optima's are not as good as they used to be and their warranty has become much more limited then it once was and they are quite picky about it now. If an Optima has been deeply discharged they are more difficult to recover. I'd recommended keeping a battery tender on the car if you are not driving it regularly. I personally like Odyssey batteries a lot more, they are about the same price.
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Old 02-18-2021, 03:01 PM   #22
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I would try and wait for the yellow top. With a proper charger, you can bring the yellow top back from the dead

Search the Optima Batteries Facebook page for an article on charging/saving batteries.
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Old 02-18-2021, 03:27 PM   #23
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Quote:
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I would try and wait for the yellow top. With a proper charger, you can bring the yellow top back from the dead

Search the Optima Batteries Facebook page for an article on charging/saving batteries.
You can also parallel it with another battery that is good and charge them together.
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Old 02-20-2021, 08:15 AM   #24
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Hi guys I did some more digging and I'm thinking about 2 different batteries leaking when I go on the track but not on the road.

I'm starting to consider the possibility of a faulty or failing "battery current sensor" the little sensor attached to your negative battery terminal.

Since the problem doesn't come out while the car is being monitored, maybe it overcharges for an instant and the ECU doesn't notice it happening? idk i'm just trying to rule out some possibilities since i'm not detecting any overcharging when I have the battery/alternator checker clamped onto the battery.



EDIT: I haven't gotten and tried another battery yet. I'm still in the process of cleaning and repainting the places where the battery leaked

Last edited by Delmar; 02-20-2021 at 08:17 AM. Reason: Additional info
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Old 02-20-2021, 09:54 AM   #25
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Hi guys I did some more digging and I'm thinking about 2 different batteries leaking when I go on the track but not on the road.

I'm starting to consider the possibility of a faulty or failing "battery current sensor" the little sensor attached to your negative battery terminal.

Since the problem doesn't come out while the car is being monitored, maybe it overcharges for an instant and the ECU doesn't notice it happening? idk i'm just trying to rule out some possibilities since i'm not detecting any overcharging when I have the battery/alternator checker clamped onto the battery.



EDIT: I haven't gotten and tried another battery yet. I'm still in the process of cleaning and repainting the places where the battery leaked

So I have been watching this thread since you started it and reading through your previous posts and looking at the pictures, I see that you have the older style current sensor. The note in the picture notating the model year changes of the current sensor from 2016 to 2017 which is now a battery condition sensor, indicate that the charging system has been redesigned from three phase to single pole for efficiency purposes.

Is it at all possible that your alternator is the redesigned part from 2017 and newer? Did you purchase your car brand new or did you purchase it used? Could it be that the prior owner installed the newer-style alternator instead of the correct one for your model year, which could be causing the problems that you're experiencing with the batteries leaking?
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Old 02-20-2021, 03:59 PM   #26
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So I have been watching this thread since you started it and reading through your previous posts and looking at the pictures, I see that you have the older style current sensor. The note in the picture notating the model year changes of the current sensor from 2016 to 2017 which is now a battery condition sensor, indicate that the charging system has been redesigned from three phase to single pole for efficiency purposes.

Is it at all possible that your alternator is the redesigned part from 2017 and newer? Did you purchase your car brand new or did you purchase it used? Could it be that the prior owner installed the newer-style alternator instead of the correct one for your model year, which could be causing the problems that you're experiencing with the batteries leaking?
You misunderstand.

The alternator is still a 3 phase alternator. It's a lot more powerful than the 2016, but it's still a 3 phase alternator.

The difference between the 2016 and 2017 is in the way the alternator is controlled, the 2016 alternator has a big 12V charging post and a connector with 3 wires: A turn on circuit, a charge lamp control circuit and a control circuit from the PCM for a square wave input, the duty cycle of which controls charging voltage. The 2017 alternator has just 2 wires going to it: A big 12V charge lead and a single control wire. It gets it's 12V and Ground internally and the single control wire is a LIN bus interface, it's not driven by a square wave from the PCM, but rather it regulates itself internally and receives charging requests as network packets and can output diagnostics to the PCM over that same wire.

A 2017 alternator in a 2016 car would not work. The connector for the control wires doesn't fit in the socket, and even if it did, the 2016 PCM would be sending a square wave instead of network communication.
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Old 02-20-2021, 05:36 PM   #27
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You misunderstand.

The alternator is still a 3 phase alternator. It's a lot more powerful than the 2016, but it's still a 3 phase alternator.

The difference between the 2016 and 2017 is in the way the alternator is controlled, the 2016 alternator has a big 12V charging post and a connector with 3 wires: A turn on circuit, a charge lamp control circuit and a control circuit from the PCM for a square wave input, the duty cycle of which controls charging voltage. The 2017 alternator has just 2 wires going to it: A big 12V charge lead and a single control wire. It gets it's 12V and Ground internally and the single control wire is a LIN bus interface, it's not driven by a square wave from the PCM, but rather it regulates itself internally and receives charging requests as network packets and can output diagnostics to the PCM over that same wire.

A 2017 alternator in a 2016 car would not work. The connector for the control wires doesn't fit in the socket, and even if it did, the 2016 PCM would be sending a square wave instead of network communication.

Technically, I didn't misunderstand.

I know that the charging circuits have had a redesign and since I only have my '15 FR-S to look at under the hood, not being able to compare it with the newer design, I was speculating if it is at all possible for the newer alternator (or even an aftermarket replacement alternator that may look identical on the outside to the OEM alternator, just not have the same internal electronics, i.e. made in China) to be installed in place of the older OEM alternator, and could that be the source of the problem.

But it looks like you've answered that question. If the OP isn't getting a CEL or has any DTC's in the ECM then yes, it's probably the correct matching alternator for his model year.

We still need to find out if his charging system is still stock or not. Maybe at some point his alternator was replaced with a lower quality aftermarket unit that simply didn't have the tighter OEM tolerances.

I've read a lot here about other members tracking their cars but this is the first time I've read about multiple brand new batteries leaking in one car.

There could still be a current sensor intermittently going bad under extreme heat environments such as during track use that may be causing the problem, or again an intermittently faulty alternator internal component that breaks down under high heat.

A constant voltage monitor and data logging during track use would reveal an intermittent overcharging situation.
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Old 02-21-2021, 12:00 AM   #28
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We still need to find out if his charging system is still stock or not. Maybe at some point his alternator was replaced with a lower quality aftermarket unit that simply didn't have the tighter OEM tolerances.
Yes I got the car used, but I'm not sure if the previous owner changed the alternator since I bought the car 2 years ago at 16,000km (almost 10,000 miles) and it seemed like nothing was wrong with the car.

I've attached photos of my alternator (and the information sticker in the back) if that helps
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