(GR86) Second Generation FR-S/BRZ insider info...

[RetroRacer]

I can see that cayman influence as well in the front fenders just slightly sloped...I’m getting excited to see the full reveal.

[alone1i]

I just have a small feelings that may be it may not directly descended from first Gen. Like, AW11 to SW20 to W30 of MR2 Genra. May be majority of people liked this kind of change but unfortunately I'm in minor group.

[86MLR]

I have a small feeling it is more of a 17+ make over than a "next gen".

I hope I'm wrong though

Meh, give it a few months and we will see which of the click baits were even remotely close to what gets released.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Little early to say whether I like it or not since can't see the whole package but there are at least three points against it for my taste.
1 - Not a huge fan of the head and taillight layout. People can complain about the current shapes but at least they were not as generic as the little bit we can see in these pictures.
2 - Where are the hips over the rear wheels? Hopefully it is just the camo doing a good job but it looks like they are shrunk up.
3 - The front fender humps are most certainly gone. They were a huge part of the flow of the overall lines and gave it a sort of retro sports car look.

I'm completely with you on all your points. Like you, I have to wait and see (and of course drive!) the car in person. But so far, it looks like all the expectations, hints, spy shots, previews, and speculation bandied about here are true - a more 'refined', less distinctive, slightly more generic form.

To my eyes it also looks like the front fender bulges are completely gone, which is a major shame. I love those! Whatever one thinks about how well 'integrated' or 'added on' they look, they certainly give the car character and personality. The view from the driver's seat, seeing those front fender bulges, is simply fun (and similar to the view out from a Cayman/Boxster). Uncertain if the rear quarter panel hips are still there, which would also be a shame if they're gone or toned down.

Of course the big mystery is still the engine. It sounds like the consensus is that it's going to be a N/A 2.4 with 217 hp and 176 ft-lb of torque. While that's technically 'more power', I don't think it will be enough of a seat-of-pants difference to tempt me out of my current car. Especially with the blander body style of the new car. Again a test drive will reveal all, but I suspect the minimal hp increase and modest torque bump might be partially offset by any increase in weight, negating some of the power increase feel.

I don't care about the 'numbers'. I don't care if it's 0.3 seconds faster 0-60. I think that kind of modest hp and torque increase is probably going to be within the margin of error of how well I'm driving on any particular day. I'm not going to the Nurburgring to post lap times, I'm not going to a drag strip for 1/4 mile runs, and I've never cared about bragging to strangers at the bar about how 'fast' my car runs 0-60. All I care about is how it feels to me, how it feels to my butt in the seat. Maybe the power delivery and torque curve will give a more significant improvement in feel than the maximum numbers suggest. But it will have to be meaningfully noticeable to my seat-of-pants feel to get me to consider giving up the more sensuous, sexier lines of my current car for the new one.

More than anything else, I applaud and thank Toyota and Subaru for moving forward with this car, for spending the money and having the cajones to build any next-generation BRZ/86 at all - and with a manual transmission!!!! - in the face of both a declining sports car market, and a global pandemic recession. I don't imagine the next-gen car will make much more money for them than the current car did. This car is a gift to enthusiasts everywhere. Those that will inevitably complain about 'not enough more power!' don't get it, and never will. Forget them. It's their loss.

Let's all raise a glass and toast Toyota and Subaru for making this car at all.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

I have a small feeling it is more of a 17+ make over than a "next gen".

I hope I'm wrong though

Meh, give it a few months and we will see which of the click baits were even remotely close to what gets released.

Doesn't matter what the reality is people will say the clickbaits were right. And they probably were right after the twentieth or so change to their "guaranteed accurate insider information"

[nextcar]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

SNIP

Of course the big mystery is still the engine. It sounds like the consensus is that it's going to be a N/A 2.4 with 217 hp and 176 ft-lb of torque. While that's technically 'more power', I don't think it will be enough of a seat-of-pants difference to tempt me out of my current car. Especially with the blander body style of the new car. Again a test drive will reveal all, but I suspect the minimal hp increase and modest torque bump might be partially offset by any increase in weight, negating some of the power increase feel.

SNIP

So, all the engine info is unconfirmed guessing... and you have the correct take: a test drive is required for anyone who isn't just a "review racer"...

But a modest increase in torque that starts lower and is FLAT across the normal (not racing) RPM range can make a very noticeable difference in DAILY driving. Given a 20% displacement increase (if true) it is not unreasonable to expect the torque to be far better on the bottom half of the RPM range.

I am cautiously optimistic pending seeing the car in person and driving it!

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by nextcar

So, all the engine info is unconfirmed guessing... and you have the correct take: a test drive is required for anyone who isn't just a "review racer"...

But a modest increase in torque that starts lower and is FLAT across the normal (not racing) RPM range can make a very noticeable difference in DAILY driving. Given a 20% displacement increase (if true) it is not unreasonable to expect the torque to be far better on the bottom half of the RPM range.

I am cautiously optimistic pending seeing the car in person and driving it!

Yeah, but it would be less fun.

What I hope to hear. "Revealing the new BRZ! Powered by an all new FA20 naturally aspirated engine making 206hp!". Would be fun lol.

[soundman98]

i'm not feeling the headlights or taillights. and as a lighting addict, that's major points against it..

from what i'm seeing, this feels less like a passion project, and more of a 'paint by committee' car.. all the hard edges seem to have been softened, and that 'supra spoiler' that i despise so much has been added, which will make every aftermarket wing option impossible..

[Ash_89]

The fender flares look (to my eyes) like they are still present, the picture a few posts up seems to confirm this.

I hope the engine whatever it is isn't a downgrade, seems silly that it could be given Toyota's resurgent line up of sport models.

[fitcious]

I think hp and torque will be modest upgrades but how early the torque comes and stays on will be key.

I’m also curious how much involvement did Tata-San have vs the first gen as he was probably busy with the Supra’s development during the same time as 2nd gen 86. And given the importance of the Supra name, I would imagine his focus will be on that than the 86.


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[nikitopo]

@mazeroni The vertical cut at the door is because of the curtain. Check the other pictures. They don't have this cut and the door appears same with existing generation.

[alone1i]

Originally Posted by fitcious

I think hp and torque will be modest upgrades but how early the torque comes and stays on will be key.

I’m also curious how much involvement did Tata-San have vs the first gen as he was probably busy with the Supra’s development during the same time as 2nd gen 86. And given the importance of the Supra name, I would imagine his focus will be on that than the 86.


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I am also wondering if Tada-san really involve in this 2nd Gen or not. Because there are no interview or any article from Tada-san for a long time. I hope someone in this forum may have the accurate info.

[fitcious]

Originally Posted by alone1i

I am also wondering if Tada-san really involve in this 2nd Gen or not. Because there are no interview or any article from Tada-san for a long time. I hope someone in this forum may have the accurate info.

I think Tada-San retired from Toyota after the Supra thus for the MIA. But yes, I agree,
I haven’t seen any interviews or his engagement for the 2nd Gen. For the first gen, he was super involved, went to meets,
signed that piece above the glovebox and even attended that LA86 drive a few years back.


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[nikitopo]

I believe that Tada-San is not involved at all in the new generation. It was heard at some point of time that most of the development team was changed too.