Steering? 2nd gen BRZ GR86 vs. 1st gen?

[rennlistuser3]

Hi,


I'm hoping by now enough people got hands on experience comparing 2nd gen with 1st gen FT86.


I'm particularly interested in the steering as that's among what I love the most about my 1st gen FT86.



As far as I understand, the 2nd gen has an entirely new setup for the steering. They were supposedly aiming at simplifying it. I read in some places that this effected the feedback and made the steering less communicative.



If anyone has anything to chip in, please do. I feel like personally, this is a topic important enough to discuss on its own.

[PBR]

As far as I understand, the 2nd gen has an entirely new setup for the steering. They were supposedly aiming at simplifying it. I read in some places that this effected the feedback and made the steering less communicative.



Edited, had 1 too many. I find gen 2 quite a bit better for feel. I also have little respect for most NA "journalists" or he causual youtubers that dont really know what they're writing about. Lot of that..
Anyways, it's a simplified system with less damped out. Problem with EPS. The lack of rigidity, in gen 1 added more weight to make it seen more stiff but there is less "feel." In a Gen 1 despite being "heavier " promise

[PBR]

Do this test. Gen 1 vs gen 2. Bumpy road. 30 mph..See which one has more movement. My money is all Gen 2. And that's what we call, "feedback." It's also more consistent from lock to lock without the off center dead spot like my '13
13. I've also owned a Lotus evora which, arguably, has the best steering feel yet of any modern car. Way better than my 997.1.

[Dirty Harry]

You really need to test drive it back to back with your first gen car. For me the steering feel was the biggest let down on the new gen, others on here have a similar view to me and then there are others that prefer it or don’t think it is a big deal. Both are still great cars and I would still own either one.

Here is my detailed comparison, if you’re interested, the overall thread isn’t bad either.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...&postcount=638

Another good comparison on the same thread.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...&postcount=653

[PBR]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

You really need to test drive it back to back with your first gen car. For me the steering feel was the biggest let down on the new gen, others on here have a similar view to me and then there are others that prefer it or don’t think it is a big deal. Both are still great cars and I would still own either one.

Here is my detailed comparison, if you’re interested, the overall thread isn’t bad either.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...&postcount=638

Another good comparison on the same thread.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...&postcount=653

I sincerely believe gen 1 owners are trying to confirm their bias. They probably think I am also but I do, absolutely, find gen 2 to have the better steering feel and I've owned both. And I sincerely believe many can't tell "feel" from "weight" 100%. And unless you get a drunk salesman? Which is possible (ran an internet New car sales dept) how are you really going to know?

[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by PBR

I sincerely believe gen 1 owners are trying to confirm their bias.

Well this guy owns a GR86 and has had a few first gens and he had similar observations about the steering. I think it is personal preference as to what you like.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...59&postcount=1

[nikitopo]

I don't remember many people complaining about the 1st gen steering feel. If the 2nd gen steering is an entirely new setup, then it makes sense they were trying to achieve a different result.

[PBR]

There also wasn't a previous version to compare to. I've got my opinion on the matter and that's that. Y'all think whatever you like ��

[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by PBR

There also wasn't a previous version to compare to. I've got my opinion on the matter and that's that. Y'all think whatever you like ��

That’s fair enough, steering feel is a bit more of an intangible and will be down to personal preference. To see if you prefer it or like it less, the only way is to test drive one yourself.

[PBR]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

That’s fair enough, steering feel is a bit more of an intangible and will be down to personal preference. To see if you prefer it or like it less, the only way is to test drive one yourself.

And that's a solid point too. Yeah, preference. Not everyone is looking for the exact same thing and wouldn't mind a bit more weight 👍

[Samba86]

Originally Posted by PBR

I sincerely believe gen 1 owners are trying to confirm their bias. They probably think I am also but I do, absolutely, find gen 2 to have the better steering feel and I've owned both. And I sincerely believe many can't tell "feel" from "weight" 100%. And unless you get a drunk salesman? Which is possible (ran an internet New car sales dept) how are you really going to know?

Yep, subjectivity and confirmation bias will always come into play, but I consciously seek to keep mine in check. If something is "better", I'll freely admit it (and want it.)

I'm late to the twins - I'd always wanted to try one, tho only pulled the trigger after watching the reveal footage of the '22 BRZ (before the GR was shown off.) Managed to find one well under market value with 10K miles that had a perfect service history. I don't have a dog in this fight - I can comfortably afford a '22, and my investment in the GT86 is minimal since the car has appreciated in value since I purchased it.

Ok enough back story. I was straight up surprised by the difference in steering weight and feel when I drove my GT86 back to back (on the same PS4 tyres) as the '22 BRZ test car. Feel is subjective, but the heft of the zenki 86 is just perfect for my tastes. I could also feel the road surface more clearly, and encountered less understeer going into the tighter bends. Even if we disregard the subjectivity of feel, I'd take the zenki wheel and weighting every time over the '22 BRZ setup. For me, my car was more tactile and thus more satisfying to punt around a corner. Will test and reassess when the GR86 launches here in Oz.

[PBR]

Originally Posted by Samba86

Yep, subjectivity and confirmation bias will always come into play, but I consciously seek to keep mine in check. If something is "better", I'll freely admit it (and want it.)

I'm late to the twins - I'd always wanted to try one, tho only pulled the trigger after watching the reveal footage of the '22 BRZ (before the GR was shown off.) Managed to find one well under market value with 10K miles that had a perfect service history. I don't have a dog in this fight - I can comfortably afford a '22, and my investment in the GT86 is minimal since the car has appreciated in value since I purchased it.

Ok enough back story. I was straight up surprised by the difference in steering weight and feel when I drove my GT86 back to back (on the same PS4 tyres) as the '22 BRZ test car. Feel is subjective, but the heft of the zenki 86 is just perfect for my tastes. I could also feel the road surface more clearly, and encountered less understeer going into the tighter bends. Even if we disregard the subjectivity of feel, I'd take the zenki wheel and weighting every time over the '22 BRZ setup. For me, my car was more tactile and thus more satisfying to punt around a corner. Will test and reassess when the GR86 launches here in Oz.

Awesome response and thank you. Tires do come into play as well. My '13 was on Indy 500s. (I know, I know. Don't shoot me) and until my engine had trouble. A whole other story.... I put TWS 18x8, 225 Falken RT660s along with my Bilstein B8/Swift Spec Rs with Cusco rear control arms and -1 camber all around. I want to say I feel that there is bit more weight now but probably wishful thinking. What I do like is that I find it more precise with more feedback despite being lighter. It may also ne the increased rigidity that's making me like the steering better as well as that's something i really look for in a car. Why i prefer the twins to MX5s. Anyways, I do think both systems are just about the best feeling EPS systems available at any price.

[Samba86]

Originally Posted by PBR

Awesome response and thank you. Tires do come into play as well. My '13 was on Indy 500s. (I know, I know. Don't shoot me) and until my engine had trouble. A whole other story.... I put TWS 18x8, 225 Falken RT660s along with my Bilstein B8/Swift Spec Rs with Cusco rear control arms and -1 camber all around. I want to say I feel that there is bit more weight now but probably wishful thinking. What I do like is that I find it more precise with more feedback despite being lighter. It may also ne the increased rigidity that's making me like the steering better as well as that's something i really look for in a car. Why i prefer the twins to MX5s. Anyways, I do think both systems are just about the best feeling EPS systems available at any price.

Yeah, no doubt tires play a significant role (which is why I think the press track comparisons (with previous models on primacies) were unintentionally misleading.
Despite the steering being lighter and a little less feelsome from my perspective, there's so much to love about the '22 cars. Really feels like the end of an era - affordable, light, pure sports coupes that thrive on corners. We're lucky to have access to these cars.

[PBR]

Originally Posted by Samba86

Yeah, no doubt tires play a significant role (which is why I think the press track comparisons (with previous models on primacies) were unintentionally misleading.
Despite the steering being lighter and a little less feelsome from my perspective, there's so much to love about the '22 cars. Really feels like the end of an era - affordable, light, pure sports coupes that thrive on corners. We're lucky to have access to these cars.

It is the end of an Era. And as a 43 year old "purist" I had been waiting for a paradigm shift to super lightweight cars with less power. The needle swung the other way over the last 30 years and yeah, these are some of the last, best ICE cars yet made. There have also been a lot of comparisons as to now this is a modern 944. I'd say it's also got a bit of E30 M3 DNA in them. Been fortunate to have driven this car both on road and track. It's amazing. Hero you can meet. Playful, full of feel, etc. But I still like my '22 BRZ more 🤣 cheers 🍻