Car and Driver is F-ing Stupid

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Yeah, mine was a whopper of an understatement.

They make fun reading though!

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

I've mentioned both Final Drive and drive-by-wire specifically because neither mod changes the actual amount of horsepower the car puts down, but instead, each mod increases the power felt by the driver.

Final Drive is actually a torque multiplier and changes the amount of torque that is transferred on the wheels. However, things get complex with speed and the gear that you have to use in each case (shorter or longer FD). This is a reason why crankshaft power is a better measure of actual engine power.

[KoolBRZ]

For those who didn't know, a remapped throttle is only one map out of the hundreds that make up a tune. It is not a tune in and of itself. It does not change the maximum horsepower or torque of the engine. It simply changes how much goes where, at which pedal percentage and at which rpm. The actual air to fuel ratios, exhaust gas re-circulation, and emission controls are unchanged. These still work in the same relation, regardless of which throttle map is loaded.
Since there are a lot of car reviewers and car buyers who aren't looking for, and in some cases, can't even drive a stick, I want to concentrate on solutions for the Automatic versions of the FT86.
As a sports car owner, I am offended by the fact that a stock Auto FT86 can't keep up with a much of anything, econocars, SUV's, or minivans, in stop and go traffic.
The reason is, the cars just don't have enough low-end torque to accelerate in the same gear they are in. The gas pedal must be pressed at least 20% to trigger a downshift, and then, in a lower gear, at higher revs, it has so much power that it catches up to traffic dangerously quickly.
The solution is to remap the throttle and change the Final Drive. The throttle needs to actually have less power up to 20%, then more power from 20% to 100%, in the lower rpm ranges below 3000 rpm's.
I drive an Auto. I have used a 4.10, a 4.30, and currently a 4.88 Final Drive in my car. I've been backing up my words with actions, by actually changing the throttle map, driving, changing, driving, and learning as I go. There are a lot of negative people who Can't Do Sh*t, that feel they need to tear down those who can. I use Open Source RomRaider tuning software so I can share what I learn with others, and learn from others who are willing to share.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

For those who didn't know, a remapped throttle is only one map out of the hundreds that make up a tune. It is not a tune in and of itself. It does not change the maximum horsepower or torque of the engine. It simply changes how much goes where, at which pedal percentage and at which rpm. The actual air to fuel ratios, exhaust gas re-circulation, and emission controls are unchanged. These still work in the same relation, regardless of which throttle map is loaded.
Since there are a lot of car reviewers and car buyers who aren't looking for, and in some cases, can't even drive a stick, I want to concentrate on solutions for the Automatic versions of the FT86.
As a sports car owner, I am offended by the fact that a stock Auto FT86 can't keep up with a much of anything, econocars, SUV's, or minivans, in stop and go traffic.
The reason is, the cars just don't have enough low-end torque to accelerate in the same gear they are in. The gas pedal must be pressed at least 20% to trigger a downshift, and then, in a lower gear, at higher revs, it has so much power that it catches up to traffic dangerously quickly.
The solution is to remap the throttle and change the Final Drive. The throttle needs to actually have less power up to 20%, then more power from 20% to 100%, in the lower rpm ranges below 3000 rpm's.
I drive an Auto. I have used a 4.10, a 4.30, and currently a 4.88 Final Drive in my car. I've been backing up my words with actions, by actually changing the throttle map, driving, changing, driving, and learning as I go. There are a lot of negative people who Can't Do Sh*t, that feel they need to tear down those who can. I use Open Source RomRaider tuning software so I can share what I learn with others, and learn from others who are willing to share.

I feel that you are really wasting your time with this car. If I may, I would suggest a Mustang GT Automatic, just touch the gas pedal and everyone will be behind you. I am not trolling or sarcastic, but I see that twins are not for you, that's all. And ... you're welcome

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

For those who didn't know, a remapped throttle is only one map out of the hundreds that make up a tune. It is not a tune in and of itself. It does not change the maximum horsepower or torque of the engine. It simply changes how much goes where, at which pedal percentage and at which rpm. The actual air to fuel ratios, exhaust gas re-circulation, and emission controls are unchanged. These still work in the same relation, regardless of which throttle map is loaded.
Since there are a lot of car reviewers and car buyers who aren't looking for, and in some cases, can't even drive a stick, I want to concentrate on solutions for the Automatic versions of the FT86.
As a sports car owner, I am offended by the fact that a stock Auto FT86 can't keep up with a much of anything, econocars, SUV's, or minivans, in stop and go traffic.
The reason is, the cars just don't have enough low-end torque to accelerate in the same gear they are in. The gas pedal must be pressed at least 20% to trigger a downshift, and then, in a lower gear, at higher revs, it has so much power that it catches up to traffic dangerously quickly.
The solution is to remap the throttle and change the Final Drive. The throttle needs to actually have less power up to 20%, then more power from 20% to 100%, in the lower rpm ranges below 3000 rpm's.
I drive an Auto. I have used a 4.10, a 4.30, and currently a 4.88 Final Drive in my car. I've been backing up my words with actions, by actually changing the throttle map, driving, changing, driving, and learning as I go. There are a lot of negative people who Can't Do Sh*t, that feel they need to tear down those who can. I use Open Source RomRaider tuning software so I can share what I learn with others, and learn from others who are willing to share.

The second you change anything from stock you have tuned. It is the very definition of the word. Any change you make does effect the emissions I am a total lose in how you could think otherwise. You have not "backed up" anything. You have yet to show us one single test result that proves any of your statements. If you can't keep up with traffic even on the stock settings then the car is not the issue.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by mrg666

I feel that you are really wasting your time with this car. If I may, I would suggest a Mustang GT Automatic, just touch the gas pedal and everyone will be behind you. I am not trolling or sarcastic, but I see that twins are not for you, that's all. And ... you're welcome

I agree with you and I would love a mustang GT in auto as my DD, except I am getting about 33-34 mpg with my BRZ and I drive about 79 a day. The mustang GT would be no where close to that mpg. I think the BRZ is just a blast to drive, especially in the turns and it's so light and nimble. I'll get a mustang GT one day when mpg does not matter to me.

[darthpnoy1984]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

I agree with you and I would love a mustang GT in auto as my DD, except I am getting about 33-34 mpg with my BRZ and I drive about 79 a day. The mustang GT would be no where close to that mpg. I think the BRZ is just a blast to drive, especially in the turns and it's so light and nimble. I'll get a mustang GT one day when mpg does not matter to me.

I have a similar commute as you are underpowered please the kids unfortunately are too spoiled these days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fuddbutter]

Without reading the 31 pages before me..

The review is pretty much spot on.
The car handles like shit out of the box, i have spent thousands to get mine to handle how it should.
It's a cheap car, and it's good for its price, but its nothing special.

it is easy to be biased cause you own one, I was... But after 30k (AUD) of work, it's starting to look good, and handle well.
And I have only done basic performance mods..
Another 10k and I could have a Harrop supercharger, and at 80k that it is now cost me, I could have just bought a M240i and been done with it.

[deejaylew]

Originally Posted by fuddbutter

Without reading the 31 pages before me..

The review is pretty much spot on.
The car handles like shit out of the box, i have spent thousands to get mine to handle how it should.
It's a cheap car, and it's good for its price, but its nothing special.

it is easy to be biased cause you own one, I was... But after 30k (AUD) of work, it's starting to look good, and handle well.
And I have only done basic performance mods..
Another 10k and I could have a Harrop supercharger, and at 80k that it is now cost me, I could have just bought a M240i and been done with it.

Is this real?

[Mr.Impreza]

Originally Posted by fuddbutter

Without reading the 31 pages before me..

The review is pretty much spot on.
The car handles like shit out of the box, i have spent thousands to get mine to handle how it should.
It's a cheap car, and it's good for its price, but its nothing special.

it is easy to be biased cause you own one, I was... But after 30k (AUD) of work, it's starting to look good, and handle well.
And I have only done basic performance mods..
Another 10k and I could have a Harrop supercharger, and at 80k that it is now cost me, I could have just bought a M240i and been done with it.

Wow...you bought the wrong car buddy. If you have had to invest 30k already to just consider the car to be up to your standards...you should of not bought it

~

An no....buying a BMW won't allow you to be "done with it". BMW just gives you VIP access to the dealerships garage since you'll be seeing it monthly.

Trust me...I've owned BMW's

[Yardjass]

^^^ BMW is pure garbage.

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

For those who didn't know, a remapped throttle is only one map out of the hundreds that make up a tune. It is not a tune in and of itself. It does not change the maximum horsepower or torque of the engine. It simply changes how much goes where, at which pedal percentage and at which rpm. The actual air to fuel ratios, exhaust gas re-circulation, and emission controls are unchanged. These still work in the same relation, regardless of which throttle map is loaded.
Since there are a lot of car reviewers and car buyers who aren't looking for, and in some cases, can't even drive a stick, I want to concentrate on solutions for the Automatic versions of the FT86.
As a sports car owner, I am offended by the fact that a stock Auto FT86 can't keep up with a much of anything, econocars, SUV's, or minivans, in stop and go traffic.
The reason is, the cars just don't have enough low-end torque to accelerate in the same gear they are in. The gas pedal must be pressed at least 20% to trigger a downshift, and then, in a lower gear, at higher revs, it has so much power that it catches up to traffic dangerously quickly.
The solution is to remap the throttle and change the Final Drive. The throttle needs to actually have less power up to 20%, then more power from 20% to 100%, in the lower rpm ranges below 3000 rpm's.
I drive an Auto. I have used a 4.10, a 4.30, and currently a 4.88 Final Drive in my car. I've been backing up my words with actions, by actually changing the throttle map, driving, changing, driving, and learning as I go. There are a lot of negative people who Can't Do Sh*t, that feel they need to tear down those who can. I use Open Source RomRaider tuning software so I can share what I learn with others, and learn from others who are willing to share.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The second you change anything from stock you have tuned. It is the very definition of the word. Any change you make does effect the emissions I am a total lose in how you could think otherwise. You have not "backed up" anything. You have yet to show us one single test result that proves any of your statements. If you can't keep up with traffic even on the stock settings then the car is not the issue.

From a third party perspective, it is pretty clear what is going on here. I have no doubt that the ability exists to set up and tune this car to behave like much more of what is expected from a sports car. That said, it is not possible for other reasons.


The stock throttle map, shift points, changing the rear end ratio, and so on, are all set up to meet the EPA and CARB emission and fuel economy standards and conform to the drive cycle tests. Should this apply to a low volume sports car, many of which aren't even daily driven? Probably not, but the EPA has been over-reaching quite a bit lately, and the CARB regulations are basically a way for one state to circumvent the democratic process and force one state's excessive regulations on the entire country by way of leveraging economies of scale.


Basically what I'm saying is this is a regulatory problem, not a Toyota/Subaru problem. That, along with the fact that they want to advertise a higher fuel economy, are responsible for a lot of less than desirable automotive "innovations" that we've seen lately. Valve problems from cylinder deactivation systems, turbocharged motors on economy cars that will be expensive to fix in the long run, reduced engine longevity due to particulate filter systems, and my personal favorite, the disaster that is the CVT, are just a few that come to mind.


Unfortunately, this kind of thinking has made its way into the 86 as well, and this is what we are stuck with now. On the plus side, we are also getting positive improvements such as weight reduction, because of this. Also, it can be fixed with a tune, although it kind of sucks to lose your warranty over something so silly.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

From a third party perspective, it is pretty clear what is going on here. I have no doubt that the ability exists to set up and tune this car to behave like much more of what is expected from a sports car. That said, it is not possible for other reasons.

Basically what I'm saying is this is a regulatory problem, not a Toyota/Subaru problem. .

I am glad that somebody get's it!
This is all that I have maintained all along! Unfortunately those regulatory requirements are indeed Toyota/Subaru's problem. Not so much as a "want" to advertise but a MUST meet situation. They do what they can to give the public what they want and still meet the requirements they are required to if they wish to export the vehicles.


The guys that tune or mod do not have their hands tied by the regulations and do pretty much as they please. End of story and a non debatable FACT.

[Guru Woodman]

Originally Posted by Mr.Impreza

An no....buying a BMW won't allow you to be "done with it". BMW just gives you VIP access to the dealerships garage since you'll be seeing it monthly.

Trust me...I've owned BMW's

Me too. I they needed work.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Guru Woodman

Me too. I they needed work.

In fairness there were still two Germanys when you got that!