follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine, Exhaust, Transmission

Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-20-2021, 06:52 AM   #1
grumpysnapper
Senior Member
 
grumpysnapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Drives: BRZ
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 294
Thanks: 250
Thanked 473 Times in 173 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Exhaust. My biggest failure.

Building my car whatever I did had to meet at least one of these 3 simple rules:
1: improve function and/or
2: save weight and/or
3: encourage me to want to drive more.

My biggest failing and regret was the exhaust. And it was all my fault.

Seduced by weight savings I went for a full titanium single exit 2.75” system, from the over pipe back, off the shelf from a reputable aftermarket manufacturer. (the engine has a Harrop supercharger fitted)
There were certainly weight savings, around 20kg, and the construction was very good, with gorgeous looking welds.

But, from the start, is sounded awful…raspy, annoying, lightweight…. no depth at all. And loud. Way, way too loud.

So I find a genuine old school exhaust guy. Great guy, has worked with all the Australian racing greats, there is a genuine 427 SC Cobra sitting on one hoist, a Matich Can-Am car sits on a trailer…he has just finished a Jaguar XJ220. A proper greasy, fully filled with stuff, workshop.

Low key and down to earth, happy to see how he can quieten down my car.
He asks why I went off the shelf titanium… in fact then asks why I went titanium at all. Smiles, says nothing.

Decides the only way to reduce volume is to construct his own large rear muffler, explains that the only real way to contain “volume” is by increasing, maximising the volume of the main muffler.

So we remove the new titanium one, and a week later I pick the car up with a very large, but tucked up, 321 stainless muffler, completely hand made by him.

Car sounds better, much better, and nowhere as loud. But still not great, still a little raspy a little bit still annoying.

He smiles again, I decide I can live with it for a bit longer…I might get used to it.

A year later, Ive already been back twice with fractured titanium welds (it gets a lot of use on dirt and back roads). He explains titanium can only be repaired a limited number of times…and for continued rough/hard use, it will keep on cracking and fracturing, especially since they are not exactly tucked up under the car to any great extent. And it will continue to not sound so flash.

So I bite the bullet, “what should I have done from square one?”.
Don’t get seduced by flashy adverts for Titanium exhausts, I should have found a bloke like this, asked him what to do, and how to do it…. and paid him to do it.
So I did that….
The new system was about %50 more expensive than the titanium system, hand made in a light(ish) gauge 321 stainless, about 10kg heavier than the titanium system.
It is fully tucked up, pretty much in line with the floor, the only compromise being that impossible to avoid rear subframe crossmember.
It sounds wonderful, deeper, richer. (In fact at rally days I keep getting Subaru guys coming up asking why it sounds so good).
Its strong, solid, hasn’t had any issues now for a number of hard years.
And importantly… it flows perfectly.

The moral of this long winded story is that there is proper old school type knowledge, wisdom and amazing expertise out there that can save you time, money and grief.

And the answer to many of your current exhaust questions (in fact most car questions) is not to be found in flashy internet claims or adverts…. but in real workshops, with real mechanics and constructors, all around the world.
(pics below are of the latest system....very happy with it)
Attached Images
      

Last edited by grumpysnapper; 03-21-2021 at 08:44 AM.
grumpysnapper is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to grumpysnapper For This Useful Post:
bcj (03-20-2021), Capt Spaulding (03-20-2021), Cephas (03-21-2021), Compelica (03-20-2021), humfrz (03-21-2021), meWant (03-24-2021), NoHaveMSG (03-21-2021), Racecomp Engineering (03-22-2021), ROADRACER (04-27-2021), solidONE (03-21-2021), soundman98 (03-21-2021), surfwaxsmitty (03-22-2021), The Red One (03-20-2021), Ultramaroon (03-22-2021)
Old 03-20-2021, 08:23 AM   #2
thpark93
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Drives: 2016 Asphalt FR-S
Location: Windsor, ON
Posts: 29
Thanks: 5
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks for sharing this! Our engines just don't sound good, so it definitely is a challenge.

Good to check beforehand what the sound would be like with any new exhaust component you're putting on. Happy you ended up where you liked it though. And hopefully you kept a few people from making the same mistake.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
thpark93 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to thpark93 For This Useful Post:
grumpysnapper (03-20-2021)
Old 03-20-2021, 08:23 PM   #3
Spawn_Of_Creation
Human
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Drives: 2015 BRZ Black
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 173
Thanks: 89
Thanked 73 Times in 51 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
The front pipe is where most of the drone in the cabin comes from usually with a full exhaust. You could try going back to stock (minimal losses unless you are pushing a ton of air), or put in a large resonator or 2 to try to reduce the drone.


Something like this Apexi Front Pipe has.
__________________
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it." - The Notebooks of Lazarus Long

Last edited by Spawn_Of_Creation; 03-20-2021 at 09:08 PM.
Spawn_Of_Creation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2021, 01:46 AM   #4
humfrz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: 2013 FR-S, white, MT
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 28,735
Thanks: 26,752
Thanked 29,510 Times in 15,570 Posts
Mentioned: 679 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
OR ...... just have put an aftermarket axle back muffler on it and called it good -
humfrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2021, 08:42 AM   #5
grumpysnapper
Senior Member
 
grumpysnapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Drives: BRZ
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 294
Thanks: 250
Thanked 473 Times in 173 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn_Of_Creation View Post
The front pipe is where most of the drone in the cabin comes from usually with a full exhaust. You could try going back to stock (minimal losses unless you are pushing a ton of air), or put in a large resonator or 2 to try to reduce the drone.
yeah cheers, all good now with the new custom system above, zero drone, and sounding deep and perfect... and with the supercharger it needs the extra capacity.

Last edited by grumpysnapper; 03-23-2021 at 12:28 AM.
grumpysnapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2021, 06:04 PM   #6
solidONE
Senior Member
 
solidONE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Drives: FR-S Whiteout
Location: California
Posts: 2,863
Thanks: 1,808
Thanked 789 Times in 611 Posts
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Girthy looking. Is that one still 2.75" or larger?
__________________
Intent > Content

cowardice is the mother of cruelty.
solidONE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2021, 06:10 PM   #7
Sapphireho
Extra crispy
 
Sapphireho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Drives: Costco boxer briefs
Location: Caldwell, ID
Posts: 11,231
Thanks: 4,716
Thanked 14,454 Times in 7,099 Posts
Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
You're not the first to have an expensive mod not work out. Glad it worked out in the end. Live and learn.
Sapphireho is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Sapphireho For This Useful Post:
grumpysnapper (03-22-2021)
Old 03-22-2021, 09:25 AM   #8
grumpysnapper
Senior Member
 
grumpysnapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Drives: BRZ
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 294
Thanks: 250
Thanked 473 Times in 173 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by solidONE View Post
Girthy looking. Is that one still 2.75" or larger?
yeah its still 2.75" , it does look bigger, but maybe its a bit distorted by the lens.
grumpysnapper is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to grumpysnapper For This Useful Post:
solidONE (03-22-2021)
Old 03-22-2021, 01:18 PM   #9
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,685
Thanks: 11,918
Thanked 10,851 Times in 4,910 Posts
Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Ti is hard to work with and requires a bit of post processing treatment. There are issues with contamination during welding and machining that you have to be extra careful with. Without it I wouldn't doubt it fatigues and fails pretty easily. Repairing it would exaggerate the issue even further, the heat effected area would be under stress and it would fail even sooner due to the residual stress and possible additional contamination from welding.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
bcj (03-23-2021), grumpysnapper (03-23-2021), Ultramaroon (03-22-2021)
Old 03-22-2021, 02:01 PM   #10
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,081
Thanks: 8,742
Thanked 13,723 Times in 6,594 Posts
Mentioned: 946 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
I particularly enjoy the shield he put in front of the resonator.
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post:
Dzmitry (03-22-2021), grumpysnapper (03-23-2021), soundman98 (03-22-2021), Ultramaroon (03-22-2021)
Old 03-22-2021, 04:06 PM   #11
BrahmaBull1990
Howdy
 
BrahmaBull1990's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Drives: 2020 BRZ PP
Location: Snohomish, WA
Posts: 589
Thanks: 1,269
Thanked 443 Times in 246 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I feel you. My corsa catback with Tomei UEL header and overpipe is right on the edge of acceptable. It has grown on me a lot, but I intentionally left stock frontpipe with the cat so my ears wouldn't be bleeding.

I really hope you figure it out. Too loud of a car really takes the fun out of them. About 8 years ago I had a MR2 with only a front pipe and it was embarassing...
__________________
There's a point at 7,000 RPM... where everything fades. The machine becomes weightless. Just disappears. And all that's left is a body moving through space and time. 7,000 RPM. That's where you meet it. You feel it coming. It creeps up on you, close in your ear. Asks you a question. The only question that matters. Who are you?
BrahmaBull1990 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BrahmaBull1990 For This Useful Post:
grumpysnapper (03-23-2021)
Old 03-23-2021, 12:19 AM   #12
grumpysnapper
Senior Member
 
grumpysnapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Drives: BRZ
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 294
Thanks: 250
Thanked 473 Times in 173 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
I particularly enjoy the shield he put in front of the resonator.
Bingo! You quickly (and easily) spotted one of the key reasons why an older experienced head is so valuable in car world.

It was one of those pleasant surprises when I picked up the car... I hadn't asked for it, and I wasn't even smart enough to think to have come up with the idea!

Exactly why paying more, and allowing time, for some things from (some) people is actually a wise investment.
grumpysnapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2021, 12:27 AM   #13
grumpysnapper
Senior Member
 
grumpysnapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Drives: BRZ
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 294
Thanks: 250
Thanked 473 Times in 173 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrahmaBull1990 View Post
I feel you. My corsa catback with Tomei UEL header and overpipe is right on the edge of acceptable. It has grown on me a lot, but I intentionally left stock frontpipe with the cat so my ears wouldn't be bleeding.

I really hope you figure it out. Too loud of a car really takes the fun out of them. About 8 years ago I had a MR2 with only a front pipe and it was embarassing...
Thanks mate, but its pretty much %100 perfect now with the system he made for me, so very very happy
grumpysnapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2021, 05:13 AM   #14
gen3v8
Senior Member
 
gen3v8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Drives: My18 wrxsti My19 brzts
Location: Botany Bay
Posts: 843
Thanks: 468
Thanked 804 Times in 430 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpysnapper View Post
Bingo! You quickly (and easily) spotted one of the key reasons why an older experienced head is so valuable in car world.

It was one of those pleasant surprises when I picked up the car... I hadn't asked for it, and I wasn't even smart enough to think to have come up with the idea!

Exactly why paying more, and allowing time, for some things from (some) people is actually a wise investment.
So what does it do considering the joint is just in front of it?
__________________
If you see where you came from in your drivers window. It`s definitely RWD!
gen3v8 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Biggest intercooler thatíll fit? Cothman4Life Engine Swaps 8 03-12-2021 01:10 PM
Biggest tire? BReezyBRZ Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 1 02-01-2017 08:18 PM
Biggest turnoff? ZionsWrath Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS] 27 06-06-2016 12:20 PM
CV Joint Failure and Differential Failure AreteAuto Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 26 06-16-2015 05:18 PM
Biggest gains yomchi1989 AUSTRALIA 5 09-28-2012 07:31 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2022 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.