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Old 03-25-2019, 01:41 PM   #85
weederr33
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Originally Posted by Jyn View Post
So I have the ACE header dynoed (dyno'd?), but unsure whether I should start a new thread with my thoughts or just dump it here.





93 octane:



E-65 on ACE header, E-72 on JDL UEL header:



Big note about ACE peak numbers:
I did some inspection this past weekend and saw that a bolt was missing from the header to OP connection. Have replaced that and checked all the header bolts, which were tight.


Thoughts:
Peak numbers weren't really my goal, as comparing dynos from different days and different operating conditions can have such varying results. Instead, I want to look at the curve of the graphs. There's some notable things that pop out to me:

* The 3500 to 4500 RPM range yields a notable gain in both whp and tq compared to the JDL UEL. This is great for day-to-day driving.

* The EL sound really isn't as "Honda" as I thought it would be. I did enjoy the baby rumbles from the JDL UEL, but the ACE sounds great at the higher RPM, but the JDL FP and Dezod catback probably help with mitigating any rasp or lawnmower type sounds

* I'm initially disappointed with the peak behavior. The power drops off around the 6700 RPM mark! I'm regularly running 7000-7200 on track, so I'm a bit apprehensive that it dies off so early. I wanted to make sure it wasn't a tuning/tuner/install error, so I checked out some other ACE dynos:


https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125559



http://blog.aceheader.com/2015/11/ac...mation_17.html



One thing to note, CSG & Delicious Tuning are the biggest vendor/tuner combo for the ACE set up. On CSG_Mike's 2017 BRZ, the power band builds linearly through 7000 RPM.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121460



tl;dr / Conclusion:
Because most of Delicious Tuning's customers are remote tune, there's not many data points on how their ACE tunes do, besides CSG_Mike and I believe one other Cali member's plots. Regardless, if one's set on the ACE set up, I would recommend to go through CSG and Delicious Tuning combo.

Now I'd be really interested to get my hands on a JDL 4-2-1 header and get that dyno tuned to compare.
You should post your findings on the ACE thread that is somewhere on here.
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:27 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyn View Post
So I have the ACE header dynoed (dyno'd?), but unsure whether I should start a new thread with my thoughts or just dump it here.

[snip]

Big note about ACE peak numbers:
I did some inspection this past weekend and saw that a bolt was missing from the header to OP connection. Have replaced that and checked all the header bolts, which were tight. It's possible the missing bolt made an exhaust leak that, combined with dyno variances, may explain why there's a ~10% difference in peak power :shrug:


Thoughts:
Peak numbers weren't really my goal, as comparing dynos from different days and different operating conditions can have such varying results. Instead, I want to look at the curve of the graphs. There's some notable things that pop out to me:

* The 3500 to 4500 RPM range yields a notable gain in both whp and tq compared to the JDL UEL. This is great for day-to-day driving.

* The EL sound really isn't as "Honda" as I thought it would be. I did enjoy the baby rumbles from the JDL UEL, but the ACE sounds great at the higher RPM, but the JDL FP and Dezod catback probably help with mitigating any rasp or lawnmower type sounds

* I'm initially disappointed with the peak behavior. The power drops off around the 6700 RPM mark! I'm regularly running 7000-7200 on track, so I'm a bit apprehensive that it dies off so early. I wanted to make sure it wasn't a tuning/tuner/install error, so I checked out some other ACE dynos:

One thing to note, CSG & Delicious Tuning are the biggest vendor/tuner combo for the ACE set up. On CSG_Mike's 2017 BRZ, the power band builds linearly through 7000 RPM.

tl;dr / Conclusion:
Because most of Delicious Tuning's customers are remote tune, there's not many data points on how their ACE tunes do, besides CSG_Mike and I believe one other Cali member's plots. Regardless, if one's set on the ACE set up, I would recommend to go through CSG and Delicious Tuning combo.

Now I'd be really interested to get my hands on a JDL 4-2-1 header and get that dyno tuned to compare.
We spent HOURS of time on the dyno trying to find more power out of these very expensive headers, and all we could find was a couple HP down low, and similar performance that you'd get with any quality header up top. We've had a similar experience with other manufacturers who claim 200 whp on pump gas, even so far as to tell us what cam timings to run to achieve those results--and we lost power by doing that. The difference between a well designed but cheaply made header, and a well designed but well made header is money and durability. There is no magic formula on an NA car to get 10 more real HP out of header design. Eliminating the cat and adding a proper merge collector is responsible for 95% of the power gain with a header (10-15hp), the fancy design work will add the other 5%. Not another 10 or 20 hp.
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Old 03-26-2019, 04:50 PM   #87
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We spent HOURS of time on the dyno trying to find more power out of these very expensive headers, and all we could find was a couple HP down low, and similar performance that you'd get with any quality header up top. We've had a similar experience with other manufacturers who claim 200 whp on pump gas, even so far as to tell us what cam timings to run to achieve those results--and we lost power by doing that. The difference between a well designed but cheaply made header, and a well designed but well made header is money and durability. There is no magic formula on an NA car to get 10 more real HP out of header design. Eliminating the cat and adding a proper merge collector is responsible for 95% of the power gain with a header (10-15hp), the fancy design work will add the other 5%. Not another 10 or 20 hp.
Interesting, as one of the ways Delicious was pitched to me as the ACE tuner officiando was because of their cam timing optimization. My tuner went so far as to review his "secret sauce" tables with me to show that there really wasn't any more timing or ignition that he felt comfortable adding, yet that's what the power and curvature would stay at.

You haven't had a chance to dyno tune any JDL 4-2-1 set ups on this platform yet, have you? I'd be interested to see if characteristics are similar.
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Old 03-26-2019, 04:51 PM   #88
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You should post your findings on the ACE thread that is somewhere on here.
I thought about it, but am not really interested in the direction I believe that'd steer that conversation . Anyone is welcome to repost this or link to it though.
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:08 PM   #89
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I thought about it, but am not really interested in the direction I believe that'd steer that conversation . Anyone is welcome to repost this or link to it though.
Gotta give it the ol razzle dazzle
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Old 03-26-2019, 10:10 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyn View Post
Interesting, as one of the ways Delicious was pitched to me as the ACE tuner officiando was because of their cam timing optimization. My tuner went so far as to review his "secret sauce" tables with me to show that there really wasn't any more timing or ignition that he felt comfortable adding, yet that's what the power and curvature would stay at.

You haven't had a chance to dyno tune any JDL 4-2-1 set ups on this platform yet, have you? I'd be interested to see if characteristics are similar.
I'm very curious about the answer to that too, as I'm still split on JDL 4-2-1 vs ACE. Honestly once all is said and done the price differential isn't that big by my calculations, but I am curious how close they end up being.
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Old 03-27-2019, 11:50 AM   #91
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If you post this is in the ace thread there's a 1000% chance the die hard fanboys are gonna jump down your throat. Also am I the only one not surprised by the lack of top end power? I always thought 4-1=top end, 4-2-1=Low/Mid
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Old 03-27-2019, 02:05 PM   #92
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If you post this is in the ace thread there's a 1000% chance the die hard fanboys are gonna jump down your throat. Also am I the only one not surprised by the lack of top end power? I always thought 4-1=top end, 4-2-1=Low/Mid
Lol. I do have a vested interest in wanting the ACE to perform well, I bought it after all.

I was unaware of the 4-2-1 vs. 4-1 characteristics, but you could be correct. I think I was (incorrectly) conflating the idea of 4-2-1 vs. 4-1 with UEL vs. EL, where supposedly EL has more top end vs. UEL's bottom/mid.
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Old 03-27-2019, 04:33 PM   #93
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Interesting, as one of the ways Delicious was pitched to me as the ACE tuner officiando was because of their cam timing optimization. My tuner went so far as to review his "secret sauce" tables with me to show that there really wasn't any more timing or ignition that he felt comfortable adding, yet that's what the power and curvature would stay at.

You haven't had a chance to dyno tune any JDL 4-2-1 set ups on this platform yet, have you? I'd be interested to see if characteristics are similar.
The cams have a usable swing of about 20 degrees at the high end. I.E. you wouldn't run 40 degrees of cam advance at 7000 rpm, but best power will be somewhere around 0-20. It doesn't take long to do a sweep in 5 degree increments on both the intake and the exhaust cam to find the optimal timings. We have not tested the JDL 4-2-1 yet here, but we'd certainly not mind. Looks like a nice unit as usual.
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Old 03-08-2020, 08:28 PM   #94
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Wow, almost a year since I've last updated this thread. I've slowed down (lol) on the number of track days I go to as a lot of my money and effort goes towards home ownership nowadays. Also doesn't help that I still occasionally buy cosmetic items. Once a ricer, always a ricer I guess...




I swapped out my Wasp Composites front splitter to an APR. It was beat up from hitting things like my trailer too many times Used some longer and sturdier rods to properly mount it to the crash beam instead of the bumper cover like most people do.





Recently, a Texas track finished up a pretty large renovation and expansion. Got a chance to drive it and it's fair to say Texas has a new "most technically challenging" track.



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Old 03-15-2020, 12:45 PM   #95
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For years I've been having oil leak issues all over my engine bay. Some of it is from the timing cover leaks that have progressively gotten worse, but some I've noticed from the oil filter location. Someone recently at the track noticed the same and said it was the Mocal sandwich plate on my oil cooler, and that Mocal had explained the issue and fix for him. I emailed Mocal and got a (very quick) reply:

Quote:
Hello,

Yes, there is a fix for this issue. What is happening is the plate and spacer are touching (metal to metal) and not allowing the o-ring to seal properly. This happens after time and re-tightening of the center bolt that holds the components together. For the fix, see the attached image and note the circled area. Using a Dremel rotary tool relieve some of the metal off the casting here so when the plate and spacer go together there is more clearance between the two. This will allow proper compression on the o-ring and a better seal.
They were kind enough to send me a replacement o ring gasket and I've attached the image of the area to fix in the post. Hopefully with the coronavirus stuff, I'll have some time to work on the car. I'll report back after I've done the fix and taken it out on track.
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Old 07-01-2020, 03:00 PM   #96
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Update on the Mocal sandwich plate adapter fix: seems to have fixed the issue. Haven't noticed any leaking oil from there after taking it out on several hot track days.

Here's some fun from Eagles Canyon Raceway up in north Texas.
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Old 11-12-2020, 12:08 AM   #97
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Just got back home from running NOLA Motorsports park with Gridlife. It was a fun track and I can't wait to go back.

Was doing okay in Time Attack Saturday until I spun a few times and ended up with one of my Falken RT660s getting corded. Swapped it to the rear and was able to run a similar time as my current PB, so parked and waited for Sunday.

Sunday, first session is damp from rain overnight. Took a pass on the front straight and ended up not scrubbing enough speed going into T1. After trying to save it, I realized the grass was coming up, so decided to cut my losses and go straight off to prevent mud from flipping the car. Ended my weekend there for a mid-to-lower place finish for Street RWD.


At this point, I feel like I've done a lot with the show/stance car. I've already removed the sound system and I think now I am ready to remove the airbags and go full track oriented. I'm debating whether to start a new thread in the track section in order to get more input on questions I may have. I may update this thread every once in a while.
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