follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Software Tuning

Software Tuning Discuss all software tuning topics.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-30-2021, 12:42 PM   #15
Limitless_BRZ
Member
 
Limitless_BRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Drives: Crystal White BRZ
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 94
Thanks: 4
Thanked 18 Times in 16 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRZoomTX View Post
The log itself is definitely missing all important parameters except AFR, and overall is rather useless for debugging. Yes EcuTek app logs fine, but as mentioned you must select additional parameters for this to be a useful log.

Be sure at minimum to add Engine RPM, LTFT, STFT, fuel system status, and Commanded AFR. These will serve best to tell you as an end user what is going on when looking at the log. The rest of the information wont mean much to you, but they mean a lot for tuning, so the more parameters you log the better someone here can assist.

Generally, the ProECU Desktop defaults are good parameters. Match these in your app if that is what you are using to log.

On the issue itself, total fuel trims beyond 20% either direction is not good, but it is also somewhat expected if you have a only a single Flash and Go iteration. Generally these are best to get the car moving but are not ideal under hard driving. I definitely strongly recommend working on more tune iterations because the car is very far off right now based on your screenshots.

Also FWIW, LTFT and STFT dropping to zero is normal when you give it enough throttle for the ECU to switch to open loop (fuel system status 4). Most tuners especially for FI will disable LTFT in open loop. Ensure you log Fuel System Status, once you see it switch to 4 the car is in open loop mode. You then want to look for the Actual AFR to follow the Commanded AFR. Ideally connect and log output of a wideband but it is not required.

Since your closed loop fuel trims are so far off, I would expect your fueling in open loop to also be off. They at least have it on the richer side vs leaner side (more safe), but it is worth observing open loop operation to make sure you are not excessively rich as this can also cause its own set of problems.



Got it sorted out for the most part, now just need a 3" overpipe all the way back to exhaust or a 3" tapered to a 2.5", my current set up JDL 3" dp connects to a 2.5" OP and has a hard change at the flange so its restricting air flow
Limitless_BRZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2021, 01:21 PM   #16
Limitless_BRZ
Member
 
Limitless_BRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Drives: Crystal White BRZ
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 94
Thanks: 4
Thanked 18 Times in 16 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
https://datazap.me/u/limitlessbrz/wo...ta=13-14-15-30


Uploaded a WOT 3rd gear log, We think that the 3" downpipe sharp change to 2.5" Op is hurting air flowing causing the ECU to pull timing
Limitless_BRZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2021, 09:26 PM   #17
tomm.brz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Drives: brz 2017 hksv2
Location: italy
Posts: 2,183
Thanks: 499
Thanked 1,059 Times in 769 Posts
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
well you should try to have a less atrocious airflow scaling and tune overall, since the ecu is constantly pulling out fuel while you WOT with boost

From the whole I see there i would say
Change tuner lol
but you won't do it and we can't help anyway because only your tuner can modify it
tomm.brz is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tomm.brz For This Useful Post:
BRZoomTX (05-01-2021)
Old 04-30-2021, 10:15 PM   #18
Limitless_BRZ
Member
 
Limitless_BRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Drives: Crystal White BRZ
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 94
Thanks: 4
Thanked 18 Times in 16 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomm.brz View Post
well you should try to have a less atrocious airflow scaling and tune overall, since the ecu is constantly pulling out fuel while you WOT with boost

From the whole I see there i would say
Change tuner lol
but you won't do it and we can't help anyway because only your tuner can modify it
It’s through delicious tuning, their good. gonna see what happens with the 3” turbo back exhaust
Limitless_BRZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 11:25 AM   #19
BRZoomTX
Senior Member
 
BRZoomTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Drives: '13 BRZ
Location: Texas
Posts: 362
Thanks: 179
Thanked 234 Times in 149 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limitless_BRZ View Post
It’s through delicious tuning, their good. gonna see what happens with the 3” turbo back exhaust
My own personal opinion about Delicious aside, the current tune is not dialed in well as already mentioned. Adding a 3" turbo-back wont fix the issue you're having here. Your 2.5" will easily flow enough air for your current boost level.

Before your pull your LTFT is near 20% indicating idle and cruise MAF scaling is not dialed in well. During the pull, you start rich then lean out on the top end, it swings from ~4% too rich to ~5% lean; nearly a 10% variation in fueling during your pull. Your MAF g/s curve is also bumpy, especially on the top end, and contributes to why your fueling is off.

Your tuner [Delicious] should have you do much more low end MAF scaling before having you do these pulls. The car does not look ready to be driven hard yet. Just my $0.02.

Your current MAF scaling will be causing more of an effect on your drivability than your 2.5" overpipe. You can run a stock catback on a turbo and not suffer from such issues. You won't make the best power but you shouldn't feel anything along the level of thinking the car is pulling timing.

Regarding timing, you are actually running a couple degrees more on the top end than the low end, so over time it is adding timing, not taking it out. You did have knock event early in the pull but IAM remained 1. Delicious will want to look at that area but please have them address your MAF scaling first.
__________________
'13 WRB BRZ ~470whp // Instagram // YouTube
BRZoomTX is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to BRZoomTX For This Useful Post:
DarkPira7e (05-04-2021), Limitless_BRZ (05-01-2021), tomm.brz (05-01-2021)
Old 05-01-2021, 12:58 PM   #20
Limitless_BRZ
Member
 
Limitless_BRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Drives: Crystal White BRZ
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 94
Thanks: 4
Thanked 18 Times in 16 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRZoomTX View Post
My own personal opinion about Delicious aside, the current tune is not dialed in well as already mentioned. Adding a 3" turbo-back wont fix the issue you're having here. Your 2.5" will easily flow enough air for your current boost level.

Before your pull your LTFT is near 20% indicating idle and cruise MAF scaling is not dialed in well. During the pull, you start rich then lean out on the top end, it swings from ~4% too rich to ~5% lean; nearly a 10% variation in fueling during your pull. Your MAF g/s curve is also bumpy, especially on the top end, and contributes to why your fueling is off.

Your tuner [Delicious] should have you do much more low end MAF scaling before having you do these pulls. The car does not look ready to be driven hard yet. Just my $0.02.

Your current MAF scaling will be causing more of an effect on your drivability than your 2.5" overpipe. You can run a stock catback on a turbo and not suffer from such issues. You won't make the best power but you shouldn't feel anything along the level of thinking the car is pulling timing.

Regarding timing, you are actually running a couple degrees more on the top end than the low end, so over time it is adding timing, not taking it out. You did have knock event early in the pull but IAM remained 1. Delicious will want to look at that area but please have them address your MAF scaling first.
This is why I love forums, I appreciate it!
Limitless_BRZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 01:39 PM   #21
tomm.brz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Drives: brz 2017 hksv2
Location: italy
Posts: 2,183
Thanks: 499
Thanked 1,059 Times in 769 Posts
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRZoomTX View Post
My own personal opinion about Delicious aside, the current tune is not dialed in well as already mentioned. Adding a 3" turbo-back wont fix the issue you're having here. Your 2.5" will easily flow enough air for your current boost level.

Before your pull your LTFT is near 20% indicating idle and cruise MAF scaling is not dialed in well. During the pull, you start rich then lean out on the top end, it swings from ~4% too rich to ~5% lean; nearly a 10% variation in fueling during your pull. Your MAF g/s curve is also bumpy, especially on the top end, and contributes to why your fueling is off.

Your tuner [Delicious] should have you do much more low end MAF scaling before having you do these pulls. The car does not look ready to be driven hard yet. Just my $0.02.

Your current MAF scaling will be causing more of an effect on your drivability than your 2.5" overpipe. You can run a stock catback on a turbo and not suffer from such issues. You won't make the best power but you shouldn't feel anything along the level of thinking the car is pulling timing.

Regarding timing, you are actually running a couple degrees more on the top end than the low end, so over time it is adding timing, not taking it out. You did have knock event early in the pull but IAM remained 1. Delicious will want to look at that area but please have them address your MAF scaling first.
So OP likes to be spoon-fed but doesn't like the crude truth :P

The main facts around every Delicious tune not made by a guy named Zach that i've lately seen , are that those amount of fuel trims (both on CL and OL states) are there because of a specific reason
In the same time, those trims that linger even in final releases say a lot about how the tuner and his work

The introduction of closed loop fuel control by ecutek in racerom 10 made things different by the tuner side
It can help a lot and make tuners feel relieved that nothing will happen because of bad MAF/SD scaling, but it can be a double edged knife

hope OP will sort it out anyway
tomm.brz is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tomm.brz For This Useful Post:
BRZoomTX (05-01-2021)
Old 05-03-2021, 11:42 PM   #22
tomm.brz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Drives: brz 2017 hksv2
Location: italy
Posts: 2,183
Thanks: 499
Thanked 1,059 Times in 769 Posts
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Limitless , keep us updated :-)
tomm.brz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2021, 01:04 AM   #23
Limitless_BRZ
Member
 
Limitless_BRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Drives: Crystal White BRZ
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 94
Thanks: 4
Thanked 18 Times in 16 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomm.brz View Post
Limitless , keep us updated :-)



I will! i am having a hard time finding a 3" op/front pipe exhausts in stock.. So i might actually go with a local tuner (DB Tuned) im local to him in arizona, might be easier and see what he ends up saying
Limitless_BRZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2021, 09:20 AM   #24
DarkPira7e
Rust bucket enthusiast
 
DarkPira7e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Drives: 2013 Turbo Firestorm FRS
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,926
Thanks: 3,196
Thanked 4,093 Times in 2,044 Posts
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRZoomTX View Post
Your current MAF scaling will be causing more of an effect on your drivability than your 2.5" overpipe. You can run a stock catback on a turbo and not suffer from such issues.
I want to attest that I ran 17 psi and made 330whp with perfect drivability on stock catback and a 2.5" over pipe/frontpipe from 3" downpipe off of the turbo.
@BRZoomTX is spot on
__________________
Turbo FR-S Build - Build Thread
JDL EL Recirc manifold, Boostlab BL58x Turbo w/ T51R, 17x9 ARC-8, IAG block
DarkPira7e is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DarkPira7e For This Useful Post:
BRZoomTX (05-04-2021)
Old 05-04-2021, 10:17 AM   #25
tomm.brz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Drives: brz 2017 hksv2
Location: italy
Posts: 2,183
Thanks: 499
Thanked 1,059 Times in 769 Posts
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPira7e View Post
I want to attest that I ran 17 psi and made 330whp with perfect drivability on stock catback and a 2.5" over pipe/frontpipe from 3" downpipe off of the turbo.
@BRZoomTX is spot on
But, with e85?
i think OP use 93oct?
tomm.brz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2021, 10:17 AM   #26
DarkPira7e
Rust bucket enthusiast
 
DarkPira7e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Drives: 2013 Turbo Firestorm FRS
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,926
Thanks: 3,196
Thanked 4,093 Times in 2,044 Posts
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomm.brz View Post
But, with e85?
i think OP use 93oct?
93 is the only high octane available in Vermont, no E85 in the state
__________________
Turbo FR-S Build - Build Thread
JDL EL Recirc manifold, Boostlab BL58x Turbo w/ T51R, 17x9 ARC-8, IAG block
DarkPira7e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2021, 10:01 PM   #27
Limitless_BRZ
Member
 
Limitless_BRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Drives: Crystal White BRZ
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 94
Thanks: 4
Thanked 18 Times in 16 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I’m only on 91, e85 rare around here.
Limitless_BRZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2021, 11:22 PM   #28
tomm.brz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Drives: brz 2017 hksv2
Location: italy
Posts: 2,183
Thanks: 499
Thanked 1,059 Times in 769 Posts
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Ok, you won't remove those amount of knock just going 3" turbo back
Piss fuel will require more DI or timings will always be low and the car lazy as f***
tomm.brz is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is LTFT a value or a table? dstrout Software Tuning 24 09-12-2018 07:54 AM
Help with e85 oft - ltft is very high Neos Software Tuning 4 05-15-2018 06:25 AM
Normal LTFT?? dillanp86 Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 16 05-07-2018 11:17 PM
strange LTFT bee_are_zee Software Tuning 11 05-17-2016 07:28 PM
LTFT reading oft mike7792 Software Tuning 1 02-01-2016 09:21 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.