CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by *Axel

What I intend to do is swap occasionally between 2 sets of dampers with various spring setups; I will be using the stock set too as I think they are certainly worth enough to not let them go to waste.

Can you elaborate why? Also, do you plan to re-align the car after each change? That can get expensive quickly...

[*Axel]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Can you elaborate why? Also, do you plan to re-align the car after each change? That can get expensive quickly...

To experiment to see how different spring rates feel. A couple times a year wouldn't break the bank, like when I switch wheels/tires between hot/cold seasons.

The reason I'm asking about the Tein EnduraPros is it seems odd that they've hardly been mentioned on this forum as far as my searches go. Is anything other than top line frowned upon? For the cost of a set of B6s I could buy a set of EnduraPros and a nice set of springs.

[*Axel]

Originally Posted by bhmax

I’ve had B6/SpecR on 3 different cars now and have been very happy with the setup in terms of a feeling of stable control of motions and ability to give a decent ride over bumpy roads. Only recently switched to RCE SS1 on the BRZ for ability to fit wider wheels, have stiffer springs, and learn how adjusting damping affects things.

I’m currently installing a set of Tein Endurapro Plus dampers on an ‘05 WRX that will see daily use and RX. I couldn’t find a lot of feedback on them. Hoping for good things, they can’t be any worse than the wobbly dampers I pulled off.

Those RCE SS1s look good, been looking real hard at those, very tempting. However, I don't want to lower the car but minimally. I like the idea of choosing my own spring combos and rolling my own.

Are you going to use the stock springs on the WRX? I expect you'll like the EnduraPros.

[bhmax]

Originally Posted by *Axel

Those RCE SS1s look good, been looking real hard at those, very tempting. However, I don't want to lower the car but minimally. I like the idea of choosing my own spring combos and rolling my own.

Are you going to use the stock springs on the WRX? I expect you'll like the EnduraPros.

I’ve used stock and Eibach lowering springs on the WRX. The Teins will have King standard height springs, that may supposedly raise it a hair.

[*Axel]

Originally Posted by bhmax

I’ve used stock and Eibach lowering springs on the WRX. The Teins will have King standard height springs, that may supposedly raise it a hair.

Standard height springs seems to be a taboo subject around BRZ land. I'm thinking of using tender springs in cases when I want to add height.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by *Axel

Hi, I am proud owner of a 2022 BRZ Premium. It's a hobby toy for recreational driving on streets and road trips, as well as playing around swapping various spring rates and stacked/dual spring setups. I have a set of Swift Spec-R springs on the way.

1. What are your thoughts on Tein EnduraPro and EnduraPro PLUS, marketed as "high-performance OE-shape" shocks, compared to Bilstein B6s?

2. Paired with springs up to 300-lbs/in, in terms of real world driving feel, driving mostly 5-6/10ths, within legal speeds, would I even be able to tell the difference between the Teins and Bilsteins? If so, how?

There is a significant price difference. I see you both saying how important great dampers are, Racecomp Engineering & CSG Mike. It seems the Teins are a viable choice. Are Bilsteins and Konis that much better?

What I intend to do is swap occasionally between 2 sets of dampers with various spring setups; I will be using the stock set too as I think they are certainly worth enough to not let them go to waste.

This is an awesome thread! Been reading and learning, lots.

more questions to follow - Thanks

Off the shelf? No, they're not.

The CSG FLA is being updated for the 2022+ chassis, as the fitment and geometry is actually a bit different from the 13-20, even though the fitments can be interchanged.

[bhmax]

Originally Posted by *Axel

Standard height springs seems to be a taboo subject around BRZ land. I'm thinking of using tender springs in cases when I want to add height.

I hope the RCE rally springs become available if I ever RX an 86!

[*Axel]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Off the shelf? No, they're not.

Good to know. Thanks!

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Off the shelf? No, they're not.

Even with the Bilsteins being monotubes?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Even with the Bilsteins being monotubes?

They're okay. They really shine when you get them custom valved, but at that point, you're already spending money that gets you into a different class of damper.

[gpvecchi]

There's a question that bugs me, and I can't find an answer: is the sway bar angle important? AKA if I lower my car, do I need adjustable endlinks, or are they just needed to reduced preload?

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by gpvecchi

There's a question that bugs me, and I can't find an answer: is the sway bar angle important? AKA if I lower my car, do I need adjustable endlinks, or are they just needed to reduced preload?

To a degree (pun intended).

In an extreme case where the "effective"* arms of the bar are parallel to the end links, the end links can't turn the bar.
If I understand correctly, ideally you want the end links to be at a 90º angle to the "effective" arms of the bar when the car is at ride height (which implies the driver weight in the driver's seat).
Whenever the degree is not 90º, you need to factor in the sine of the angle to calculate the effective leverage of the bar, and leverage affects effective stiffness.
Granted, +/- 10º probably don't matter that much, as the value of the sine function is close to 1 in that range.

I believe in practice 90º is not possible on our cars in the rear.

It might also be an interesting way to tune the handling of the car so that different bars have different effective stiffness depending on the dynamic ride height, e.g. speed/downforce in a car with a lot of aero, or whether the car is accelerating/decelerating (which causes squat/dive).
But this sounds more like an F1 trick, than something that would be useful for a grassroots time attack car

Another thing to think about is clearance. If the front end links are too long, the ends of the arms can start hitting the LCA.

* — by "effective" I mean the imaginary line between the hole used to attach the end link to the bar, and the axis of rotation of the bar. The actual arms of a bar can be of any different shape (e.g. our OEM front bar has a bit of a J shape to it) and looking at just that shape can be misleading.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

I believe in practice 90º is not possible on our cars in the rear.

I have to run greater than 90 or the tips of my adjustable swaybar contact the bottom of the body.

[Scargod]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

... I believe in practice 90º is not possible on our cars in the rear...

Today I found this and wondered what the .7" meant. Does it mean it gets you back to a stock or neutral travel position if the car is dropped .7"?
Whiteline® (12-21) BRZ/FR-S/86 Rear 3-Point Adjustable Sway Bar (.70" Drop)