Does any UEL come close to the Ace header gains?

[CSG Mike]

My 2017, when I had the ace header on, could conclusively pull on a s2000, at any speed, in a drag race.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I did.

You should also look at the baselines.

Oh, so you actually didn't compare apples to apples and are just interpolating data, my mistake, I'll edit my post, thanks for fixing my misunderstanding.

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

The link you posted shows what looks like ~182 WHP and ~155 WTQ.

The CSG's results of 193 WHP and 153 WTQ with Ace and OP (third chart down.)

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88696

The 11 WHP difference is statistically significant, so I wouldn't call the results the same.

That's a very thin branch you just stepped onto. The important thing is that both graphs have the stock car's output on there.

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

I know, I know... different dynos, tuners, operators and weather conditions matter (sometimes a lot.)

So you should know better than to try to make this comparison lol. Check out the torque curves over stock.

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

My question still stands, does anyone know of an independent dynograph (legit) showing the same output CSG was able to accomplish?

Good luck distilling this little bit of difference in power out of internet dyno graphs. I don't remember the name of the poster but someone on here posted not long ago about switching from an uel to the ace and it made a noticeable midrange difference. Another poster justinco should be reporting his observations soon after switching from a uel, though I think he has the A350 which is a couple hundred more.

I agree that there's great value in the lower cost options. No argument there. It depends on priorities and disposable income.

[rtalich]

Who drives their car above 5k RPM regularly? Above 6k?? Daily driving I rarely go above 5k... so whats the point of doing this upgrade in the first place... any header for that matter, unless you're racing your car? Peak HP at such a high RPM is not very practical, IMO.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by rtalich

Who drives their car above 5k RPM regularly? Above 6k?? Daily driving I rarely go above 5k... so whats the point of doing this upgrade in the first place... any header for that matter, unless you're racing your car? Peak HP at such a high RPM is not very practical, IMO.

That my friend, is exactly the point.

A couple of groups of people answering the OPs question.

1. Group who are racing their cars and operate mostly above 5k RPM
2. Group who are not racing their cars and operate between 3-5.5K RPM

The OP will get different answers from these different groups.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by rtalich

Who drives their car above 5k RPM regularly? Above 6k?? Daily driving I rarely go above 5k... so whats the point of doing this upgrade in the first place... any header for that matter, unless you're racing your car? Peak HP at such a high RPM is not very practical, IMO.

You sir, are a perfect candidate for this graph.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

A couple of groups of people answering the OPs question.

1. Group who are racing their cars and operate mostly above 5k RPM
2. Group who are not racing their cars and operate between 3-5.5K RPM

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OawrlVoQqSs"]Por que no los dos! - YouTube[/ame]


-owner of a daily driven autox car

[Trueweltall]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

If you want to get technical, the car actually has an oil cooler, and the oil was overcooled from the car sitting on the dyno with fans blowing, so the power is actually reading lower than it should with the header. The baseline dyno was without oil cooler.

So you are saying having your oil up to temperature will actually show a measurable difference on a dyno? I find this hard to believe. What was the actual oil temperature and what should you aim for to make MAX power?! Lol.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Trueweltall

So you are saying having your oil up to temperature will actually show a measurable difference on a dyno? I find this hard to believe. What was the actual oil temperature and what should you aim for to make MAX power?! Lol.

Try stirring syrup at 60F, 70F, and 80F. Let me know if you can feel a difference.

Alternatively, try squeezing syrup out of a bottle. Microwave the bottle 15 seconds, and try it again. Rinse and repeat.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

-owner of a daily driven autox car

In regards to spending double cost a header ($1500 (Ace) over let's say $750 (Tomei)), is that a dedicated competition car owner who has a full competition car budget while driving something more comfortable on the weekdays might extract the value that from that extra 8 WHP and durability for the money (cumulative improvements and all.) Whereas a DD/weekend warrior is more budget sensitive and may likely looking for bigger bang for their $750 bucks.

Dedicated competition cars like this Auto-x car...


not weekend warriors like this Auto-x car...



Still, que sera sera when it comes to people's choices. No argument about that.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Dedicated competition cars like this Auto-x car...



Still, que sera sera when it comes to people's choices. No argument about that.

Bob isn't really autox competitive with that build last I checked, totally outgunned in SM class in an 86 without building or swapping the engine, and while he's in the process he's also been spending more and more time at the track.

The BRZ that won STX at Nationals this year is supposedly a DD as well. Built to a more closed ruleset with a more even playing field any power advantage there pays higher dividends as any header and tune are allowed and that's pretty much it for power mods on an 86. At least a few cars are nationally competitive without a >$1k header, but a lot of it comes down to skill>parts in that sphere.

Also, get a newer picture of my car stalker, I haven't run that number since like 2015.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Bob isn't really autox competitive with that build last I checked, totally outgunned in SM class in an 86 without building or swapping the engine, and while he's in the process he's also been spending more and more time at the track.

Them 6 figure builds are scary. I don't blame him for not being competitive nationally.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Them 6 figure builds are scary. I don't blame him for not being competitive nationally.

Oh yeah, he's a smart cookie, fun car = more fun than a competitive car. But no insult to him, it's not even a top dog build locally, probably the fastest 86 down south on an autox course since most are on street tires, and nobody has a car like that this side of the state. I just wouldn't use him as an example of eeking out every ounce of performance to a ruleset where picking the best header is critical to straight line performance. I also totally forgot it's an AT until I was checking his build thread for updates.

But enough armchair quarterbacking from me on this thread, the only real thing I had to contribute was a misinterpreted graph that you cleared up quite nicely.



Power mods ain't my forte but I'm looking forward to finding an ace powered autoxer I can ride along with.

[nico_rsx]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Whereas a DD/weekend warrior is more budget sensitive and may likely looking for bigger bang for their $750 bucks.

I don't know. You're basically saying that for 750$ there is something else that you could do that will get you more than that 8whp.
I think that 750$ for 8 whp is really good on this car. Apart from a E85 flexfuel tune (which a lot of people don't have access to), I don't think there is anything that you can do that will get you that 8hp with your 750$.