All season vs Summer Tires

[mrg666]

Given my driving abilities and conditions, I see zero advantage, both economical and performance, of having summer tires. These summer vs all-season discussions remind me those audiophiles claim they hear the difference of gold-contact connectors. Yeah, those are special people

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Dollar for dollar they won't.
Put a UHP A/S up against the appropriately priced UHP Summer, and run the same comparison.

OK, I just quickly looked up a couple of similarly reasonably priced tires:
Falken Azenis FK510 UHP Summer at $102:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=247
5.13s dry slalom, 5.60s wet slalom
30.86s dry lap, 34.74s wet lap
79.2 ft dry braking, 115.4 ft wet braking
0.89g dry cornering, 0.71g wet

vs. General GMax AS-05 UHP a/s at $105:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=253
5.22s dry slalom, 5.72s wet slalom
30.67s dry lap, 34.73s wet lap
85.9 ft dry braking, 113.9 ft wet braking
0.92g dry cornering, 0.75g wet

Same car: 2020 BMW 430i Gran Coupe

[churchx]

When i googled up winter temperatures in southern california/San Diego .. i simply don't get why one would ever need there all season tire. Temperatures there don't drop to even my autumn temps :/

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by churchx

When i googled up winter temperatures in southern california/San Diego .. i simply don't get why one would ever need there all season tire. Temperatures there don't drop to even my autumn temps :/

Might want to be able to take a trip somewhere where A/S tires would be a good idea.

Also, longer tire life and having a treadwear warranty might be desired.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by churchx

When i googled up winter temperatures in southern california/San Diego .. i simply don't get why one would ever need there all season tire

Two main reasons - Americans weirdly believe that summer tires are for dry warm weather, despite half the landmass of the US having more rain in the summer then in the winter (where it snows instead); and people like to road trip, so even if your daily commute is in SoCal, you might want to go up the mountains or to a state with lower temperatures and snow. I guess cars in Rome seldom go crossing the Alps in winter, but in the states such trips are common enough.

My impression is that modern UHP all season tires are very good in anything other than ice and deep snow, even when compared to dedicated summer/winter tires. It's not even a matter of price, since good UHP all season are fairly cheap, probably due to high volume of sale.
Sure, a good summer tire will marginally outperform an all season in the dry and in the wet, but the difference isn't as big as people remember from 10-20-30 years ago, and they still work well enough for the casual driver in light winter weather.
The biggest downside of all season tires is ice and heavy snow, which is why our friends up north in Canada scoff at them as 3 season tires. Ice traction (which Tire Rack tests for both winter and all season tires) is shockingly bad for all seasons, with stopping distances over twice as long!

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by churchx

When i googled up winter temperatures in southern california/San Diego .. i simply don't get why one would ever need there all season tire. Temperatures there don't drop to even my autumn temps :/

Yeah, I run summer tires year round in the Pacific NW My favorite so far has been the Conti Extremecontact Sport. Running Hankook V12 Evo2's now, they are decent for the price.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by churchx

When i googled up winter temperatures in southern california/San Diego .. i simply don't get why one would ever need there all season tire. Temperatures there don't drop to even my autumn temps :/

Conversely, here in Nova Scotia I'm thinking summer tires are useless as I'll never get them hot enough on the street to make proper use of them. Climate should be a large part of this discussion.

I've also found that Motul transmission fluid works like shit on my climate in all but the hottest days. Mean while guys in Cali claim it to be the second coming. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by ZDan

FWIW here are test results for Indy 500:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=235
And for the PS a/s 3+ on the same car:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=230

Indy 500 generally do a little better in the dry, a/s 3+ do a lot better in the wet.

I wonder if the new PS A/S 4, compared to the A/S 3+ "The latest generation improves on that performance with 4% better dry braking, 5% better wet braking and 10% more snow traction" Just bridged the small gap between the two tires you compared above in the dry, and further extended the gap in the wet. Also the new PS A/S 4 is a 540 tread-ware. So despite the increased price compared to the 340 tread-ware Indy 500, it should out last it for a long enough time to make up the cost making them roughly equal in price per mileage.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Calum

Conversely, here in Nova Scotia I'm thinking summer tires are useless as I'll never get them hot enough on the street to make proper use of them. Climate should be a large part of this discussion.

I've also found that Motul transmission fluid works like shit on my climate in all but the hottest days. Mean while guys in Cali claim it to be the second coming. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This,

Average yearly temperatures for the time of day you drive/commute the most should determine if you should choose A/S vs Summer.

I wouldn't be surprised if MPS A/S 4 out performed MPS4s in sub 55 degree weather with normal/average commute tire temperatures.

Sure if its 70+ out or you have driven long and hard enough to get some heat in the tires the MPS4s will be better. but if you are just casually commuting and have a few "spots" on your drive to/from work (or whatever commute) you like to drive spiritedly you probably wont have the temp in the tire to take advantage of the summer tire vs the A/S unless its in the 60s or you have a long commute.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by mrg666

Given my driving abilities and conditions, I see zero advantage, both economical and performance, of having summer tires. These summer vs all-season discussions remind me those audiophiles claim they hear the difference of gold-contact connectors. Yeah, those are special people

agreed. though being involved in the budget antique audio market, i do notice a connection difference between non-plated and gold-plated connectors, but that has everything to do with the effects of corrosion and age, and nothing to do with the sonic attributes when the equipment was new.


all seasons work in the majority of all road-going usage scenario's. i was once told that if they don't work, you're either a poor driver, not leaving enough space that you already should be leaving, or are over-driving the vehicle and it's kit in a public space.

in my area, most people leave the summer-only eco tires on all year long through the snow, and then just complain that their car is terrible at snow. so by that metric ANY all season tire puts me into manageable territory.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by ZDan

OK, I just quickly looked up a couple of similarly reasonably priced tires:
Falken Azenis FK510 UHP Summer at $102:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=247
5.13s dry slalom, 5.60s wet slalom
30.86s dry lap, 34.74s wet lap
79.2 ft dry braking, 115.4 ft wet braking
0.89g dry cornering, 0.71g wet

vs. General GMax AS-05 UHP a/s at $105:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=253
5.22s dry slalom, 5.72s wet slalom
30.67s dry lap, 34.73s wet lap
85.9 ft dry braking, 113.9 ft wet braking
0.92g dry cornering, 0.75g wet

Same car: 2020 BMW 430i Gran Coupe

Ew.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Dollar for dollar they won't.
Put a UHP A/S up against the appropriately priced UHP Summer, and run the same comparison.

Ah, but then pit the two against each other 4 times evenly spaced over a year (assuming a climate with 4 distinct seasons) and I bet you at least 2 of those will be won handily by the all seasons. Sure you could argue that you need winter tires in the colder seasons, but then you just doubled the price of one half of the equation.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by ZDan

OK, I just quickly looked up a couple of similarly reasonably priced tires:
Falken Azenis FK510 UHP Summer at $102:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=247
5.13s dry slalom, 5.60s wet slalom
30.86s dry lap, 34.74s wet lap
79.2 ft dry braking, 115.4 ft wet braking
0.89g dry cornering, 0.71g wet

vs. General GMax AS-05 UHP a/s at $105:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=253
5.22s dry slalom, 5.72s wet slalom
30.67s dry lap, 34.73s wet lap
85.9 ft dry braking, 113.9 ft wet braking
0.92g dry cornering, 0.75g wet

Same car: 2020 BMW 430i Gran Coupe

GMax AS-05 was my previous tire. They are very good. I would have bought again but Goodyear Eagle F1 AS had a very good deal.

[soundman98]

^i remember looking at that comparison. i chose the bfg comp2 a/s simply because the tread design looked racier of the two.

i'm a sophisticated type of guy.

my hard limit on tires is $150/ea. i see little reason to shell out more for something that i turn into smoke and enjoyment.