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Old 09-27-2021, 01:21 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by nettech_gt View Post
Thanks for the guide! Just so we are on the same page, I have a OEM Audio + (Reference 450Q) system. Will your guide still apply? Also will I retain the use of the factory mic and backup camera?


https://oemaudioplus.com/wp-content/...EF450Q_Web.pdf

As far as I know, you will be the first person to attempt to install a Harman head unit into a pre-'19 vehicle with the OEM Audio+ system. Using the harness that I designed for people to build in order to re-integrate their OEM door speaker amplifiers into their '19 and up vehicles, electrically, it should work perfectly fine since it only makes a change to how the head unit turns on your amplifier(s). However, reading through the installation instructions that you provided the link for, the DSP built into your add-on amplifier was tuned to only four different head units:

1) the Pioneer Standard Radio (PT546-00120) using the "Natural" sound setting,

2) the Scion Display Audio (PT296-00140) using the "Natural" sound setting

3) the Pioneer Premium Radio (PT546-00121) using the "Natural" sound setting,

4) and the Fujitsu Ten (FA601US) with the ASL setting set to "Off" and the "EQ Settings" set to "Flat"

The DSP built into the amplifier corrects the input signals of those four head units before making its own equalization, crossover and time alignment adjustments and outputting those altered signals to their individual drivers and/or amplifiers. I suspect you will have no issues but you may want to contact OEM Audio+ to inquire where you should leave the settings of your Harman head unit. It may even be necessary for them to re-tune the amplifier DSP settings to match the Harman head unit.

As for integrating the factory mic and back up camera, again, you'll be the first test subject so I can't make a comment on that, but I suspect you will have no issues there as well.

It will definitely be an interesting project. I say go for it!

EDIT: On second thought, I believe that the display output from the back up camera may have been moved from the head unit to the rear-view mirror on the '19 and up models with the Harman head units, so you may have to figure that issue out on your own or with help from another member here.
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Last edited by FR-S2GT86; 09-27-2021 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 09-27-2021, 01:51 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86 View Post
As far as I know, you will be the first person to attempt to install a Harman head unit into a pre-'19 vehicle with the OEM Audio+ system. Using the harness that I designed for people to build in order to re-integrate their OEM door speaker amplifiers into their '19 and up vehicles, electrically, it should work perfectly fine since it only makes a change to how the head unit turns on your amplifier(s). However, reading through the installation instructions that you provided the link for, the DSP built into your add-on amplifier was tuned to only four different head units:

1) the Pioneer Standard Radio (PT546-00120) using the "Natural" sound setting,

2) the Scion Display Audio (PT296-00140) using the "Natural" sound setting

3) the Pioneer Premium Radio (PT546-00121) using the "Natural" sound setting,

4) and the Fujitsu Ten (FA601US) with the ASL setting set to "Off" and the "EQ Settings" set to "Flat"

The DSP built into the amplifier corrects the input signals of those four head units before making its own equalization, crossover and time alignment adjustments and outputting those altered signals to their individual drivers and/or amplifiers. I suspect you will have no issues but you may want to contact OEM Audio+ to inquire where you should leave the settings of your Harman head unit. It may even be necessary for them to re-tune the amplifier DSP settings to match the Harman head unit.

As for integrating the factory mic and back up camera, again, you'll be the first test subject so I can't make a comment on that, but I suspect you will have no issues there as well.

It will definitely be an interesting project. I say go for it!

EDIT: On second thought, I believe that the display output from the back up camera may have been moved from the head unit to the rear-view mirror on the '19 and up models with the Harman head units, so you may have to figure that issue out on your own or with help from another member here.
The rear view camera worked fine on the Harman unit on my 2017 Toyota 86. No wiring modification needed.
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Old 09-27-2021, 01:56 PM   #171
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The rear view camera worked fine on the Harman unit on my 2017 Toyota 86. No wiring modification needed.
@nettech_gt, there ya go!
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Old 10-03-2021, 11:42 PM   #172
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Great! Thanks again!
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Old 10-04-2021, 01:44 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86 View Post
As far as I know, you will be the first person to attempt to install a Harman head unit into a pre-'19 vehicle with the OEM Audio+ system. Using the harness that I designed for people to build in order to re-integrate their OEM door speaker amplifiers into their '19 and up vehicles, electrically, it should work perfectly fine since it only makes a change to how the head unit turns on your amplifier(s). However, reading through the installation instructions that you provided the link for, the DSP built into your add-on amplifier was tuned to only four different head units:

1) the Pioneer Standard Radio (PT546-00120) using the "Natural" sound setting,

2) the Scion Display Audio (PT296-00140) using the "Natural" sound setting

3) the Pioneer Premium Radio (PT546-00121) using the "Natural" sound setting,

4) and the Fujitsu Ten (FA601US) with the ASL setting set to "Off" and the "EQ Settings" set to "Flat"

The DSP built into the amplifier corrects the input signals of those four head units before making its own equalization, crossover and time alignment adjustments and outputting those altered signals to their individual drivers and/or amplifiers. I suspect you will have no issues but you may want to contact OEM Audio+ to inquire where you should leave the settings of your Harman head unit. It may even be necessary for them to re-tune the amplifier DSP settings to match the Harman head unit.

As for integrating the factory mic and back up camera, again, you'll be the first test subject so I can't make a comment on that, but I suspect you will have no issues there as well.

It will definitely be an interesting project. I say go for it!

EDIT: On second thought, I believe that the display output from the back up camera may have been moved from the head unit to the rear-view mirror on the '19 and up models with the Harman head units, so you may have to figure that issue out on your own or with help from another member here.
i believe the rear view camera went to the mirrors on the 18+ cars (no idea why. As far as i know it was on the HU in the 17 cars...and 18-19 cars still used the same HU.....).
The Harmon HU didnt appear until the 2020's.
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Old 10-04-2021, 02:55 PM   #174
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i believe the rear view camera went to the mirrors on the 18+ cars (no idea why. As far as i know it was on the HU in the 17 cars...and 18-19 cars still used the same HU.....).
The Harmon HU didnt appear until the 2020's.
Yes, I believe you are correct about the vehicle model year of 2020 for the release of the Harman head unit. We all know that vehicle model years are normally (and confusingly) released worldwide the previous actual year.

When I wrote my DIY for everyone, I was referring specifically to this document:

http://toyotaparts.sparkstoyota.com/...190-20inst.pdf

which was released in 2019, so I naturally included the 2019 model years just to be on the safe side.

If there are any MY 2019 owners that DO have the Harman head unit and can confirm that their car came with one, please speak up. If nobody can confirm in the next few days, I will happily edit my DIY write-up to EXCLUDE model year 2019.
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Old 10-19-2021, 03:17 PM   #175
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So I've just done the install in my '17 over my lunch break, and trigger from antenna works perfect and the screen seems better and more responsive than the '17: the camera view in reverse sure looks more vivid.

Anyway, I'm ***shocked*** to realise the 2020 unit isn't time aligned like the '17 pioneer unit was, and unless I'm dum, there's no menu deep in the system settings to set the car type like the old HU had.

I guess I'll swallow that pill, or eventually try and find a DSP to align it...
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Old 10-19-2021, 03:39 PM   #176
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So I've just done the install in my '17 over my lunch break, and trigger from antenna works perfect and the screen seems better and more responsive than the '17: the camera view in reverse sure looks more vivid.

Anyway, I'm ***shocked*** to realise the 2020 unit isn't time aligned like the '17 pioneer unit was, and unless I'm dum, there's no menu deep in the system settings to set the car type like the old HU had.

I guess I'll swallow that pill, or eventually try and find a DSP to align it...

Unless your '17 Pioneer head unit had eight separate speaker outputs, it wasn't truly time-aligned. If fact, your six speakers up front are on the same front left and right outputs, making time alignment of the speakers impossible. The addition of an eight channel (minimum) DSP and separation of all of your speakers is the only way to get true time alignment in the stock system.

You're in luck though, new products are coming out to add DSP to multiple speaker factory systems. Here's a DSP amp made just for your situation:

https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/m...fiers/pp-86dsp
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Count to muffens and call again.
I知 40. So....... say hi to your sisters or daughters.
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Old 10-19-2021, 05:07 PM   #177
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well maybe not "true" time alignment, but the bulk of the bad sound is likely from the left/right distance difference not so much the small difference in distance from the door woofers to the dash 2 ways.

The '17 pioneer HU did *something* because setting the car type to "other" sounded like flat timing and changing it to 86 moved the sound right in front of me, like it had done when I did the timings on the kenwood excelon HU I had added to my old RAV4.
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Old 10-19-2021, 11:03 PM   #178
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well maybe not "true" time alignment, but the bulk of the bad sound is likely from the left/right distance difference not so much the small difference in distance from the door woofers to the dash 2 ways.

The '17 pioneer HU did *something* because setting the car type to "other" sounded like flat timing and changing it to 86 moved the sound right in front of me, like it had done when I did the timings on the kenwood excelon HU I had added to my old RAV4.

I would have to guess that *something* was a delay of the left side of a few microseconds and possibly lowering the volume on that left side just a smidgen to give you what the factory considers "DSP", which is more than what most car stereos in vehicles of this price class would give you.

My old lady has a '19 RAV4 with the JBL upgraded 11-speaker sound system which is the "top tier" system, but once she heard the aftermarket system in my twin with the Pioneer DEX-P99RS with 4-way active network and built in DSP, she decided that she wanted something better than what she already had. She says the volume is sufficient, so I convinced her that all she really needs is to add aftermarket DSP, remove any passive filtering to get all her speakers in phase and time-aligned, etc. for her driving position.

Most aftermarket DSP units have input signal summing so that the factory front, rear and sub signals can be combined and adjusted to flatten the signal (which most upgraded factory head units lack nowadays). Once you have that flat input signal, then you can process and start dividing the frequency spectrum to send active band-pass signals to each separate driver with the crossover slopes that you desire, add the time delays, equalization, individual level controls, etc. All of this is done through a laptop or phone app.

I'm currently looking at the Audiotec Fischer Match UP 10DSP amp for her system, which should be able to power almost, if not, all of the speakers in her RAV4 and also send a processed signal to her factory powered subwoofer. I just priced one out today at $1,300. It's a bit pricey, but it simplifies the installation in that it combines the DSP with the amplification so that's all that needs to be installed into the system. I'm aiming to substitute this in place of her factory amplifier. It should have plenty of power for this application.

The key is to get well-placed drivers in phase with each other and all of those audio signals to arrive at your ears at the same time with equal volume levels from left to right. Easy to do in home or studio applications, but much more difficult in a mobile environment.
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Old 10-20-2021, 06:08 AM   #179
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Yeesh, my RAV4 wasn't a '19, it was just an '04 with the ordinary radio and a speaker in each door. Man, that kenwood deck transformed the sound in that thing with just the time alignment. My sister's got the car now and it's wasted: The configuration is saved to an internal save slot that can just easily be restored if there is a power failure and sometimes I get in that car and the unit is reset with the illumination rotating colors and the sound is back to stock, and I'm like "dammit! just go in the menu and click the button!" and she's like "I don't care, just pair my phone's bluetooth"

And I die inside.

I was looking quickly yesterday and something basic like a kicker key180.4 is probably more than enough to correct the 2020 and beat the sound of the stock '17 pioneer unit. If my brain doesn't adjust to the 2020 sound that'll be an avenue I guess.
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Old 10-20-2021, 09:01 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Sasquachulator View Post
i believe the rear view camera went to the mirrors on the 18+ cars (no idea why. As far as i know it was on the HU in the 17 cars...and 18-19 cars still used the same HU.....).
The Harmon HU didnt appear until the 2020's.
I don't suppose anyone knows where to get a wiring diagram for the '18-up 86?
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Old 10-20-2021, 12:26 PM   #181
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Yeesh, my RAV4 wasn't a '19, it was just an '04 with the ordinary radio and a speaker in each door. Man, that kenwood deck transformed the sound in that thing with just the time alignment. My sister's got the car now and it's wasted: The configuration is saved to an internal save slot that can just easily be restored if there is a power failure and sometimes I get in that car and the unit is reset with the illumination rotating colors and the sound is back to stock, and I'm like "dammit! just go in the menu and click the button!" and she's like "I don't care, just pair my phone's bluetooth"

And I die inside.
Geez, if I were you, I'd just pull that Kenwood out and install a cheap Walmart mechless Blaupunkt head unit in there instead and install the Kenwood into another vehicle. Something just bugs me when you set up a good time-aligned system for someone and then they want to use a bad-sounding source input like Bluetooth.

Audiophiles are in a different class from the regular Joesephines, I suppose.

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I was looking quickly yesterday and something basic like a kicker key180.4 is probably more than enough to correct the 2020 and beat the sound of the stock '17 pioneer unit. If my brain doesn't adjust to the 2020 sound that'll be an avenue I guess.
Yeah, I looked at those Kicker KEY amps myself and they're good, high quality amps, but they're not flexible enough for my tastes. Besides, I need to have all of the adjustments
right in front of me while I'm in the driver's seat.

If you do end up with the four channel unit, make sure all of your other speakers in the system are disconnected when you run the setup routine or the setup will fail. If you plan to simply connect the amp outputs to the speaker wires in the back of the head unit, the setup WILL fail, since the amp must power only a single driver per channel. If you purchase TWO of those four channel KEY amps and wire each driver independently to the eight channels available, you can run the setup routine once per amp and it should get you very close to the ideal sound......
.....Actually looking closer at the specs of that amp, you won't be able to run your factory door speakers off it since they're 2-ohm. The KEY 180.4 isn't 2-ohm stable. Of course, there are ways around that. You can wire a 2-ohm ceramic resistor inline with each door speaker which will lower the volume by about 3db per speaker.....or you can replace those door speakers with 4-ohm aftermarket drivers.

It's a bit of a rabbit hole with these systems I've discovered.
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Old 10-20-2021, 12:30 PM   #182
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I don't suppose anyone knows where to get a wiring diagram for the '18-up 86?

Have you tried going to your local Auto Zone and have them pull one up for you on their Alldata system?
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