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Old 06-15-2011, 03:53 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clode View Post
Toyota says they have taken the cayman as a reference point

I don't see how "Best Car" magazine says Toyota has taken the Cayman as a reference point but, it does sound damn interesting.
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Old 06-15-2011, 06:58 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by WingsofWar View Post
On a side note, I wonder if Subaru, being somewhat new to RWD will adopt a form of active rear steering.
That is called traction control off easy button, and a torsen diff. Duh.
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:11 AM   #87
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The Cayman was always on top of my best handling best setup best Sports Car I can Buy list. It's nice to see that it's being benched Mark against the Cayman(um I don't think it's confirmed but that white cayman always around is a good indication) sigh6 months till we get a really clear picture, and I hope it's not fully like that magazine page with the camo removed the face look so "Herp Derp!" to me ;/
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:01 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by WingsofWar View Post
Iv encountered that same thing too with Subaru suspensions. I suppose it has to do working with AWD.

On a side note, I wonder if Subaru, being somewhat new to RWD will adopt a form of active rear steering.
I hope not. Subaru's current rear multilink suspension is great, with the exception of being miscalibrated for height (LOTS of droop available and not much bump, good for raised rally cars but not so good if you want to lower)

Subaru likes to mess around with diffs... I seriously doubt the normal version would have something fancy though. WRXs are still all dumb diffs, when they have them at all (08's and forward doesn't have a rear LSD just center).

For the STI, a variable-lock and/or active torque vectoring in the diff would be badass.


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bigbcraig:

When you are talking about the Subarus losing camber in corners, is that because of the big squishy rubber top mounts of the struts? Would proper bearings fix this?

(My Legacy's only a daily, but I'm accumulating some WRX/STI bits that may or may not fit. So far I've got some GD WRX struts and springs, and some STi front aluminum LCAs with the 'good' mounts/ALK part, whatever that meant...)
Perhaps stiffer upper mounts would help a little, but they should really just add precision and crispness. If they are loose /soft enough from age that you can wiggle the tops around then that would cause unpredictable camber change at load.

The loss of camber is almost exclusively in the Strut-type suspension: And I'l tryo to explain without pics because the internet in China is awful slow.

With a double-wishbone suspension, the hub is held in place with two sets of articulating arms. When you compress a bump, both of these move in arcs which means that overall, the alignment of the hub remains close to what it was. I hope that makes sense.

Struts only use a bottom articulating arm, that is stiffly connected to a 'strut', a heavy duty spring/shock combo that goes up to the top of the tower you're familiar with. On most struts and specifically subarus, the hub is hard-bolted to the strut and the strut aligns it. For instance, a camber plate that would replace your rubber mount will have adjustability to bring the top of the strut in towards the engine, so the struts and therefore the hubs are leaning in more... voila, negative camber.

When the strut compresses, the control arm ("wishbone) moves in an arc. Because we're in a relatively low passenger car, the arm is very nearly horizontal normally. In a bump, then, the outer point of the arm where the hub is mounted moves up and IN.
So, we have the strut compressing and straightening, as the bottom moves inward towards the vertical plane of the shock towers. This is where camber is lost.

The possible solutions are to raise your car or the control arm mounting points so the arms are below horizontal normally and actually move out a bit, adding camber under bump. But this is hard to do and people don't like the look of a raised car.

The other option is to increase (positive) caster. This makes it that when you turn the tire, it will actually also tilt inwards to the turn. This means that when you're turning and really need camber, the outside tire gains negative camber which is good. Too much can be goody but on a Subaru at least, you'll never really be able to get too much.

I'm not really familiar with what the ALK does in the older-style suspension (Legacy and 08+ Impreza ALKs are different), their main purpose is to change the tilt of the control arm around the axis of the axle (If that makes sense to you, I'll be suprised. Wish I had the time to make visual aids). This changes behavior under braking and acceleration that is complex but makes for the car to drive better in many ways. The new ones allow caster adjustment, and I think the old ones add some caster too. I'd have to look it up.



If you head over to motoiq.com, there's timely article about it that should still be on their front page as part of a 'ultimate handling guide' or something like that.
If you used to read SCC, a lot of the staff and friends are there writing the good technical / nerdy articles I used to love SCC for.
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:42 PM   #89
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I miss Sport Compact Car mag. Of all the import tuning magazines they seemed like the only ones that were focused more on performance than on appearance of both the automotive and female model kind.
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Old 06-15-2011, 02:34 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbcraig View Post
original gold? sorry

Otherwise, I agree, things like upgraded suspension and audio are best done by the aftermarket... But if there was a way to get a high quality shock that was actually an aftermarket model and not a "made-by" then I'd jump on it. In the aftermarket, I'd be looking at something like KW at the very least, in terms of quality. Even if it means I can only afford to do KWs, tires on the stick rims, and basic brake upgrades with homemade ducting, and stripped interior.

At Atlanta Region SCCA Solo, theres a guy with an E36 (don't remember if its an M or not) that's really fast. His Motons are supposedly about 2/3 the money put into the car.
Sorry, I was referring to Ohlins Suspension. I haven't seen the top of the line Moton 4 way c/o'ers have 16 clicks for rebound and comp and I believe are piston and shim type shocks.

Ohlins TTX which has 40 low speed and 50 clicks for high speed for both rebound and comp and is $$$ just like the Moton. The problem is that they don't have too many applications for autos.

http://www.ohlinsusa.com/us/


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Old 06-15-2011, 03:08 PM   #91
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Ohlins are my favorite, I hope they'll be available for the FT-86.
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Old 06-15-2011, 04:58 PM   #92
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ohlins!!! that's baller..

i thought toyota using the cayman as a benchmark was old news? best car's prob getting their info from this site..
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Old 06-15-2011, 05:45 PM   #93
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Ohlins are my favorite, I hope they'll be available for the FT-86.
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ohlins!!! that's baller..

i thought toyota using the cayman as a benchmark was old news? best car's prob getting their info from this site..
They all start ramping up once you get into 4 way adjustible, remote reservoir, high and low speed compression and rebound etc; 10K+ easily!

Take the STI for example when comparing their entry level suspension.

Moton Clubman are about $4700 (7 clicks each for rebound and compression)

Ohlins Road & Track are about $3500 (12 clicks for rebound and compression)

I'm a bit partial to Ohlins since I've used them in my bikes; PR and TTX rear shocks and 25mm cartridges in the forks for my motorcycles. The craftsmanship, the quality, the suspension feedback and the service is hands down the best!
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Old 06-15-2011, 07:40 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by bigbcraig View Post
...The possible solutions are to raise your car or the control arm mounting points so the arms are below horizontal normally and actually move out a bit, adding camber under bump. But this is hard to do and people don't like the look of a raised car...
PRE-RUNNER!!!!

There, I said it first .
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:17 PM   #95
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when will it be in usa???? anyone have an idea on price thanks
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:14 AM   #96
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Hi,
I follow the FT-86 Blog since beginning and now I've registered here to tell you what.

German Licenseplates have a simple structure.
Normaly its white with black letters (xxx xx nnnn) the first 1-3 letters stand for the Location (Zulassungsbezirk) the next 1-2 letters including the 1-4 numbers can be chosen by the driver and are in that combination unique.

The Licenceplates in the Video are white with red letters wich are special plates for Car-Dealers or something like that. With that plates you can drive a car for testing reasons and so on without having an insurance for the specific car. The structure is similar to the normal licenseplates, xx 0nnnnn, the two letters are also for the Location the first to numbers can be 03, 04, 06, 07 followed by a random number.

Why I tell you that?
The licenceplates (called redplates) of the testing car have to belong to a Car-Dealer (number starts with 06 what stands for Car-Dealers) near Mainz (MZ), I live in Mainz and I just know one new huge Toyota-Dealer and just one small Subaru-Dealer here. I think I'm going to visit them, maybe I find something out. ^^
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Old 06-16-2011, 01:45 PM   #97
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Hi,
I follow the FT-86 Blog since beginning and now I've registered here to tell you what.

German Licenseplates have a simple structure.
Normaly its white with black letters (xxx xx nnnn) the first 1-3 letters stand for the Location (Zulassungsbezirk) the next 1-2 letters including the 1-4 numbers can be chosen by the driver and are in that combination unique.

The Licenceplates in the Video are white with red letters wich are special plates for Car-Dealers or something like that. With that plates you can drive a car for testing reasons and so on without having an insurance for the specific car. The structure is similar to the normal licenseplates, xx 0nnnnn, the two letters are also for the Location the first to numbers can be 03, 04, 06, 07 followed by a random number.

Why I tell you that?
The licenceplates (called redplates) of the testing car have to belong to a Car-Dealer (number starts with 06 what stands for Car-Dealers) near Mainz (MZ), I live in Mainz and I just know one new huge Toyota-Dealer and just one small Subaru-Dealer here. I think I'm going to visit them, maybe I find something out. ^^
Good luck! though, it would be odd for a dealer to be testing the car instead of the manufacturers.
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Old 06-16-2011, 05:58 PM   #98
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This is going to get interesting.
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