Test drive

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Yes, you can shift a manual smoothly -- we all know how to do that. However, that's not the way most of us actually drive a manual.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Kgm32

A lot of assumptions being made about me. First, I test drove the Mustang and Camaro because they are readIly available but both were the turbo 4s. The Talon I had was 140 hp, definitely not a speedster. So I am not a HP junky. The Lexus I test drove was actually the rc300 with 260 HP probably not all that much faster than the BRZ considering it has a nearly 4000 lb curb weight. Did i like it yes but at $40,000 for a used one, I should but I can also forgive some flaws on a car that is $10,000 less new. I grew up with a stick shift so I know how to drive them, just no longer want to, I don't even use the autostick I have now. They were fun when I was much younger and understand the appeal, just not for me any more. As for amenities not sure what the BRZ would be missing, the 6 disc CD changer my Eclipse has?

So I am looking for a car that I like the looks of which IMHO the BRZ is a great looking car (the lexus has a great side profile but I find the front end to be goofy looking and something I would have to learn to live with), is quick but not necessarily fast, handles well and has a comfortable ride. Like I said the first item on the list the BRZ passes, the other 3 I have no clue as I have never driven or rode in one. So, extrashaky may be right and I may hate it or may be wrong because all items on the list are subjective.

Nah, you'll hate it. I can tell about these things.

[GrantedTaken]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Ride quality includes "jerkiness" while shifting. Smoother shifts also improve "ride quality". Yes, you can shift a manual smoothly -- we all know how to do that. However, that's not the way most of us actually drive a manual
.

No. If you're jerking while shifting, you don't know how to drive your car.
You just think you do, based on watching ricer movies.

Originally Posted by rvoll

For me, when I start getting jolts over expansion joints, the car is too firm and lacks any good ride quality. When tracking a car, I don't really care about ride quality -- but that is a completely different purpose
.

No. Ride quality is a non-issue on a perfectly paved track.
The car can have fixed a solid suspension, and you'd barely even notice.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

No. If you're jerking while shifting, you don't know how to drive your car.
You just think you do, based on watching ricer movies.

No. Ride quality is a non-issue on a perfectly paved track.
The car can have fixed a solid suspension, and you'd barely even notice.

I don't watch ricer movies like you.... And I guess you don't drive aggressively at any time. I can certainly drive as smooth or smoother than an auto with a manual, but when I'm racing through the twisties, the shifts on a manual are far more distinct than that of the standard auto -- and I like it that way. However, that does reduce ride quality -- especially for the passenger who doesn't know when you're going to shift. And we're not talking about riding on a perfectly paved track so that has nothing to do with ride quality on regular streets.

I stand by the statement that ride quality is not only due to suspension, but also to how smooth shifts are made, how quiet the car is, your tires, and how soft/comfortable the seats are. When I was younger (under 50), I really didn't care much about ride quality but find that it is more important as I age. Perhaps when I'm 85, I'll no longer even want to drive a sports car....

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Yes, you can shift a manual smoothly -- we all know how to do that. However, that's not the way most of us actually drive a manual.

wait...what?

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

wait...what?

So, I like to shift fast, aggressively downshift, occasionally pop the clutch when I just want to have some fun. You don't? Do you ALWAYS drive like a little old lady from Pasadena? And yes, when I'm on the track or on an aggressive drive through the mountains, I could care less that the ride quality suffers. But it does -- and it does more with a manual than an auto.... In addition, the manual has a higher drive ratio than the auto == and that has an effect as well.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

So, I like to shift fast, aggressively downshift, occasionally pop the clutch when I just want to have some fun. You don't? Do you ALWAYS drive like a little old lady from Pasadena? And yes, when I'm on the track or on an aggressive drive through the mountains, I could care less that the ride quality suffers. But it does -- and it does more with a manual than an auto.... In addition, the manual has a higher drive ratio than the auto == and that has an effect as well.

Did you totally miss the theme of the song or has age just made your brain reverse it?

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX5RY_aa8sU[/ame]

[krayzie]

How did this thread become another manual/auto thread? SMFH!

[GrantedTaken]

Originally Posted by rvoll

So, I like to shift fast, aggressively downshift, occasionally pop the clutch when I just want to have some fun. You don't? Do you ALWAYS drive like a little old lady from Pasadena? And yes, when I'm on the track or on an aggressive drive through the mountains, I could care less that the ride quality suffers. .

There is no way you've ever driven (properly) on a track.
Fast driving is all about smooth inputs and not unsettling the car.
Go watch some track cam footage on Youtube.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Did you totally miss the theme of the song or has age just made your brain reverse it?

You win and I should know better. You guys are just a tribal group that have tribal beliefs that support your choices notwithstanding logic and objectivity and open minded considerations. So I'll try to explain "ride quality" in more specific terms even though you will not accept it in your very parochial tribal mentality.

When you ride in a car, there are a bunch of sensory inputs -- how smooth the car feels over bumps, how comfortable the seats are, how loud the car is, road noise, how smoothly the transmission shifts, and how much you are isolated from the road. These elements are not mutually exclusive to the concept of ride quality. A Rolls is going to have much better "ride quality" than a BRZ. You ride in a Rolls, and you can't even feel or hear the transmission shifting.

Now none of us expects to have that kind of ride quality in a sports car. But even with sports cars, the ride quality of a Cayman is far better than the ride quality of a BRZ. Ride quality is far more than spring rate and dampers. One person here said that his wife didn't like the harshness of the ride of this car. I recommended a gel cushion (the same is true for my wife), and it improved the "ride quality" tremendously.

A smooth ride on the track does not mean you make the shifts disappear so you don't even feel them. In fact, you want to shift as fast as possible when accelerating. I'm sure none of you have ever downshifted where you actually feel the jerk of the engine, right? When I'm accelerating with a manual transmission, I actually like to shift as quickly as I can -- to me that's part of the fun. To my wife, it is a jerky ride with poor ride quality. She's right, of course. Because ride quality is the agglomeration of several sensory inputs, an automatic almost always "feels" smoother than a manual. Even the psychological impact of seeing the shift vs. not seeing the shift affects the brains perception of ride quality.

The genesis of this discussion was to a guy who was considering a BRZ with an automatic transmission because of fewer shifts and ride quality as a daily driver in traffic. I guess I should be used to the fanboy reaction to anything that disagrees with anything that even slightly denigrates your choices in a car. Looking at things with open minds and with new perspectives is just not a part of this group. I was hoping to give the OP a different perspective on this car -- because mine is different than yours and I happen to like my BRZ.

So, king of the forum, you can be the Fox News host of the 86 world. I'm outta here. This is my last post.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

You win and I should know better. You guys are just a tribal group that have tribal beliefs that support your choices notwithstanding logic and objectivity and open minded considerations. So I'll try to explain "ride quality" in more specific terms even though you will not accept it in your very parochial tribal mentality.

When you ride in a car, there are a bunch of sensory inputs -- how smooth the car feels over bumps, how comfortable the seats are, how loud the car is, road noise, how smoothly the transmission shifts, and how much you are isolated from the road. These elements are not mutually exclusive to the concept of ride quality. A Rolls is going to have much better "ride quality" than a BRZ. You ride in a Rolls, and you can't even feel or hear the transmission shifting.

Now none of us expects to have that kind of ride quality in a sports car. But even with sports cars, the ride quality of a Cayman is far better than the ride quality of a BRZ. Ride quality is far more than spring rate and dampers. One person here said that his wife didn't like the harshness of the ride of this car. I recommended a gel cushion (the same is true for my wife), and it improved the "ride quality" tremendously.

A smooth ride on the track does not mean you make the shifts disappear so you don't even feel them. In fact, you want to shift as fast as possible when accelerating. I'm sure none of you have ever downshifted where you actually feel the jerk of the engine, right? When I'm accelerating with a manual transmission, I actually like to shift as quickly as I can -- to me that's part of the fun. To my wife, it is a jerky ride with poor ride quality. She's right, of course. Because ride quality is the agglomeration of several sensory inputs, an automatic almost always "feels" smoother than a manual. Even the psychological impact of seeing the shift vs. not seeing the shift affects the brains perception of ride quality.

The genesis of this discussion was to a guy who was considering a BRZ with an automatic transmission because of fewer shifts and ride quality as a daily driver in traffic. I guess I should be used to the fanboy reaction to anything that disagrees with anything that even slightly denigrates your choices in a car. Looking at things with open minds and with new perspectives is just not a part of this group. I was hoping to give the OP a different perspective on this car -- because mine is different than yours and I happen to like my BRZ.

So, king of the forum, you can be the Fox News host of the 86 world. I'm outta here. This is my last post.

That is one hell of a response when all I did was point out that the Little Old Lady From Pasadena was a song about a racing Granny and you used it in an attempt to insult saying people drove like grannies.


I said nothing about any transmission or how it was driven. Not one word.


If you ever actually read anything I wrote instead of making assumptions on the first couple of words you would find that I am a strong supporter of the AT in these cars.


No it isn't you will post again.

[MuseChaser]

Where are all these threads COMING from?!?!?

[extrashaky]

So did Kgm32 ever actually endure the terrible voyage to go drive one of these cars?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

Where are all these threads COMING from?!?!?

Welcome to the new forum.