I'd like to share with you my story about Subaru customer service.

[industrial]

I read the whole OP. Sounds like a crappy situation. Some dealerships are better than others but as a whole, Subaru dealerships are about average. The structure of how service departments get paid is the problem. Service advisers and writers often have no idea whats going on with the car. Their job is to bill you or subaru as much as possible. The mechanics just do what their told. The service department is usually the #1 money maker at dealerships followed by financing.

I once had a service writer at a tractor dealer tell me to fix my idle issues on my tractor (2 years old with less than 200 hours) they would need to rebuild the motor for ~$1000. I got a second opinion from an old retired tractor mechanic and in 30 minutes he fixed the issue for a twelve pack and a bottle of seafoam. Runs like a top for the last year.

I hate service writers almost as much as I hate car salesmen. They are useless. Corporate customer service in situations like these have a no-win job most of the time since they have to deal with irrationally irate customers and dealerships trying to grab every cent from corporate they can. I would've given corporate a little more time though. They need to do an internal audit to see wtf is going on. Dealerships and corporate are not really on the same team. Not saying corporate are the good guys either but they are at least very dogmatic and through where as dealerships run the gamut.

[ntron1]

Originally Posted by Chupacabra

I suppose it's hard to read this when you don't have an idea for @Pat 's tone. He has a very calm demeanor and doesn't approach situations to make things difficult.

What you read was a point of frustration (which btw sucks hearing from him first-hand) with how the dealer didn't help resolve the situation. I'd probably think about it as if you were in his shoes, would it be easy to calmly assess?
Nah, we'd all get pissed off at some point and want to share our experience.

We're all a community that looks after one another here and I saw your name shows you as a 'sarcastic bastard' so maybe I completely missed your joke...

Simply my opinion. You are correct, I do not know him and I do not doubt the authenticity of his story. I would have done a number of things different from the beginning.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by stugray

Here is a FACT: the dealership would be 100% justified in denying warranty work for a damaged transmission THAT HAS ANY AFTER MARKET PARTS INSTALLED. I am amazed that anyone would argue otherwise. I think the dealer did the op a favor by agreeing to replace it.

While I disagree I don't think that should be the focal point of OP's story. What do the 'aftermarket parts' have to do with the fact that the repair has caused more problems than before the work started and that the dealership cannot stand behind the work they have performed? By your own lengthy description I'm not sure how the shift springs would relate to the vibration noise OP is feeling.

No dealership or manufacturer should refuse to fix their own mistakes, that is an abomination and that should be the focal point of this thread, OP has a lingering issue that Subaru has caused and is unwilling or incapable of fixing.

[olsonpg]

Ooo things are heating up in this thread.
I'll stay tuned.

[wheelhaus]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

While I disagree I don't think that should be the focal point of OP's story. What do the 'aftermarket parts' have to do with the fact that the repair has caused more problems than before the work started and that the dealership cannot stand behind the work they have performed? By your own lengthy description I'm not sure how the shift springs would relate to the vibration noise OP is feeling.

No dealership or manufacturer should refuse to fix their own mistakes, that is an abomination and that should be the focal point of this thread, OP has a lingering issue that Subaru has caused and is unwilling or incapable of fixing.

Its easy to get off track and argue details, and you're 100% correct as the issue in question is not the transmission warranty, which was honored.

The complete lack of follow through and accountability of new problems being introduced is where the ball was repeatedly dropped and things just got worse and worse.

Pat, I agree that you should continue to follow through with Mr Black as someone mentioned, if he is indeed a genuinely good guy who wants to help, then he may be a more useful resource than he's led on thus far.

[RobertPaulson]

you know i can't help but wonder if that special order is a new transmission bushing (maybe the old one is torn) or something else that wasn't installed that needs to be that's causing the OP issue.

i'm sure the OP is also calm but repeately asking to have the mechanic call him before working on the car is going to annoy the hell out of the service writer. Unless you are a returning customer and have a good rappor with their the service writer or the mechanic this request is just going to have a mark added to your account as a "difficult customer"

anyway, OP i would suggest you keep working with SOA to get this issue resolved or work with the Mr Black mentioned above. I remember reading Doomsday's ordeal back in the day and it sucked, Mr Black was the silver lining.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by stugray

Here is a FACT: the dealership would be 100% justified in denying warranty work for a damaged transmission THAT HAS ANY AFTER MARKET PARTS INSTALLED. I am amazed that anyone would argue otherwise. I think the dealer did the op a favor by agreeing to replace it.
AND If the trans has anything that causes an impediment to smooth shifts it can cause exess wear on the synchros. So you now know for a fact that the springs were installed correctly and not causing a problem. Sorry I wasn't aware that you personally inspected the trans. My apologies.

Yet, they didn't deny the work and he's still having issues because something is still wrong.


You also apparently have no idea what those springs do, or that it's essentially impossible to screw it up...

[stugray]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Yet, they didn't deny the work and he's still having issues because something is still wrong.


You also apparently have no idea what those springs do, or that it's essentially impossible to screw it up...

All I have been trying to say all along is:
1 - The OP showed up with aftermarket parts on a transmission that was exhibiting "anomalous behavior" and wanted them to look into it.
(strike one)

2 - The OP admitted to using the car on the track as a a driving instructor (Not just a "one time HPDE")
(strike two).

The dealer would be justified using additional scrutiny and possibly denying warranty work for either of those two strikes, but they chose to replace the tranny anyway.

THAT is why I said he was lucky to get a new trans at all.

And I agree - Once they agreed to do the work, they should stick to it and do it properly.

The OP clearly has not read any of the numerous threads on these forums about the potential of denial of warranty work or he would not have done either of those two things.
However he chose to do both of them: show up with aftermarket parts on the thing that is broken, AND open his mouth and mention that the car had been on the track, possibly frequently

Not terribly bright in my book - sorry I have no sympathy

[fika84]

I have personally dealt with this dealership before. It was actually where I bought my BRZ. Had a great sales and finance experience at first. Even had OK experiences with the first couple free oil changes (I say OK because I don't like anyone working on my car). I had a little bit of difficulty getting a hold of people in finance when I was try to get my GAP refund after paying off my loan. I also left voicemails for the GM, but unlike you Pat, I never heard back from him... EVER. Which was a bit frustrating. All said and done, I ended up getting my refund and everything was peaceful.

What strikes me strange about your entire synopsis, is that the GM told you to "never return to his dealership again...". After working in dealerships for 7 years I find that GM's will do almost ANYTHING to keep good customers.

I'm sorry that they caused more issues, but it sounds to me like you could have handled things a bit differently and ended up having an OK experience with getting things taken care of.

[Premium 615]

First thing that came to mind when I started seeing "oh there's aftermarket parts, that's definitely going to void your warranty" was the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

There's a section about aftermarket parts. Been hearing the same song and dance over the years when I was on a couple other forums. Its a good read... puts it in pretty simple terms. Anyway here's the link.

http://www.edmunds.com/auto-warranty...-warranty.html

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by stugray

All I have been trying to say all along is:
1 - The OP showed up with aftermarket parts on a transmission that was exhibiting "anomalous behavior" and wanted them to look into it.
(strike one)

2 - The OP admitted to using the car on the track as a a driving instructor (Not just a "one time HPDE")
(strike two).

The dealer would be justified using additional scrutiny and possibly denying warranty work for either of those two strikes, but they chose to replace the tranny anyway.

THAT is why I said he was lucky to get a new trans at all.

And I agree - Once they agreed to do the work, they should stick to it and do it properly.

The OP clearly has not read any of the numerous threads on these forums about the potential of denial of warranty work or he would not have done either of those two things.
However he chose to do both of them: show up with aftermarket parts on the thing that is broken, AND open his mouth and mention that the car had been on the track, possibly frequently

Not terribly bright in my book - sorry I have no sympathy

I understand what Stu is saying. He is not for one second supporting that the one simple spring is the cause of the issue but simply that a dealer could use it against you. The transmission had issues the spring is part of that system. As remote a chance that it actually had anything to do with the problem does not matter since it is part of the system and the dealer can run with that
As far as the track instruction goes no it is not "racing" by definition but it is most certainly beyond normal use of the vehicle. I do not have access to the full warranty but do believe there are restrictions when a vehicle is used for commercial purposes and unless Pat is training people out of the goodness of his heart these restrictions could apply. To try to argue the semantics of what constitutes a "race" may be a losing battle when the car is obviously used in race like conditions.
I feel Pat's pain and hear where he is coming from but would also see the dealer's perspective.
Overall though (as has been said) the dealers started with the process they should finish it.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by stugray

Not terribly bright in my book - sorry I have no sympathy

Bullshit. OP used this car for what it was designed for, most manufacturers stipulate no competitive events, if every off road excursion is now competitive then I'm a fucking pro at this point, where's my endorsement deal.

Subaru, Scion, and Toyota have explicitly advertised this car as track capable, proudly touting in interviews and advertisements that you can fit a set of four wheels in the back explicitly for track day usage.

Subaru promotional video clearly showing cars on a closed circuit for competitive events and heavy implication with two cars "racing" around another track:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iry-NrgnLOo"]BRZ takes flight - YouTube[/ame]


Scion promotional video released last month explicitly calling out storage space for track days: (skip to 2:10 if you don't want to watch a bunch of videos of an FRS ON A TRACK).

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yGntMe***M"]2016 Scion FR-S Walkaround [Exterior & Interior] (Scion) - YouTube[/ame]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

As far as the track instruction goes no it is not "racing" by definition but it is most certainly beyond normal use of the vehicle. I do not have access to the full warranty but do believe there are restrictions when a vehicle is used for commercial purposes and unless Pat is training people out of the goodness of his heart these restrictions could apply. To try to argue the semantics of what constitutes a "race" may be a losing battle when the car is obviously used in race like conditions.

I know what my Scion warranty booklet says:
"Misuse - For example racing or overloading"

Racing is deemed a competitive event from what my research has unearthed, if there is no timing, scoring, or winner declared it is non-competitive, it is not a race. That applies to most track days and certainly educational purposes.

It could be argued that the owner has "overloaded" his car, whatever that means but due to the promotional videos I linked above I do not believe that the occasional track day or autocross would be considered "overloading" until Toyobaru come out with a definition of how to "safely not overload the car during normal operation".

I would be happy to discuss Subaru warranty language and eat my words but I haven't looked very hard for that documentation.



Edit: Link to Subaru BRZ Brochure:
http://dbrochure.subaru.com/brochure...015-Tour-Intro

Some choice quotes:
"the ideal sports car driving experience"
"easily controllable oversteer, the car is a delight to push hard"
"Put the Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) in the available sport mode and play closer to the limit"
"while the Torsen limited-slip differential transmits that power to the pavement efficiently, even under hard cornering"
"Every day should feel like a track day"

[Teseo]

Just burn that brz and call insurance so you can buy frs.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Bullshit. OP used this car for what it was designed for, most manufacturers stipulate no competitive events, if every off road excursion is now competitive then I'm a fucking pro at this point, where's my endorsement deal.

Subaru, Scion, and Toyota have explicitly advertised this car as track capable, proudly touting in interviews and advertisements that you can fit a set of four wheels in the back explicitly for track day usage.

Subaru promotional video clearly showing cars on a closed circuit for competitive events and heavy implication with two cars "racing" around another track:

Scion promotional video released last month explicitly calling out storage space for track days: (skip to 2:10 if you don't want to watch a bunch of videos of an FRS ON A TRACK).

2016 Scion FR-S Walkaround [Exterior & Interior] (Scion) - YouTube



I know what my Scion warranty booklet says:
"Misuse - For example racing or overloading"

Racing is deemed a competitive event from what my research has unearthed, if there is no timing, scoring, or winner declared it is non-competitive, it is not a race. That applies to most track days and certainly educational purposes.

It could be argued that the owner has "overloaded" his car, whatever that means but due to the promotional videos I linked above I do not believe that the occasional track day or autocross would be considered "overloading" until Toyobaru come out with a definition of how to "safely not overload the car during normal operation".

I would be happy to discuss Subaru warranty language and eat my words but I haven't looked very hard for that documentation.



Edit: Link to Subaru BRZ Brochure:
http://dbrochure.subaru.com/brochure...015-Tour-Intro

Some choice quotes:
"the ideal sports car driving experience"
"easily controllable oversteer, the car is a delight to push hard"
"Put the Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) in the available sport mode and play closer to the limit"
"while the Torsen limited-slip differential transmits that power to the pavement efficiently, even under hard cornering"
"Every day should feel like a track day"

I think you misunderstand what I meant there. I am not saying for one second that I think nor believe that the warranty was voided in any way. I do not think using the car for teaching was misuse and I do not think the spring had anything to do with the problems.
What I do believe is that the dealership is trying to use those things as a feeble excuse and if they twist things around just the right way they can make it seem reasonable even when it is not. Again the spring is attached to the tranny system and teaching race methods is not "normal" use. Put these in front of a judge that is not a car guy and they would very likely rule against our point of view. The world is not fair and just I am afraid.