..Starting the quest for total neutrality.

[drewbot]

Originally Posted by HatchirokuV2.0

Is there a specific precision alignment that is advertised on any of the FRS forums that improve handling characteristics with stock tires/rims/suspension?

Specific alignment specs - no

But the overwhelming consensus, as shown in this thread, is that everyone is saying more negative camber upfront does wonders. How much camber, toe, caster is up to your application, driving style, etc.

[stevesnj]

Fuel weight makes a difference, a gallon a gas is roughly 6 pounds of weight. Now if you use one gallon on a track or other event weight shift differentials will impact the car. So if you test parts with a 1/2 tank and you fill to 1/2 tank for an event you'll get the setup you tested for. Just an idea

[Calum]

Originally Posted by drewbot

Specific alignment specs - no

But the overwhelming consensus, as shown in this thread, is that everyone is saying more negative camber upfront does wonders. How much camber, toe, caster is up to your application, driving style, etc.

Adding to this; I'm running -2.5 degs camber in the front, -1.5 degs camber in the rear, an extra half degree of camber, and zero toe everywhere. The zero toe would normally be considered very aggressive, expecially for the street, but it works amazingly well. There's no pulling or twitchiness on uneven pavement at any speed I've had the car at. I'd have no trouble suggesting these alignment settings to anyone else.

[chaoskaze]

I don't know, but I think stock to stock FRS is more neutral compare to BRZ. BRZ is more stable & turn in isn't as sharp in a tight spot.

[strat61caster]

@Hatchi

It's unusual to complain of oversteer, general consensus is that the FR-S understeers at the limit with a few outliers disagreeing. Personally just about every instance of oversteer has been due to my inputs.

All my tweaks have been to reduce understeer, the front seems to like more than -2.5 degrees of camber, I was happy at about -3 degrees at my last track day, I've been running ~-2.7 at AutoX and will be upping that to -3 this weekend. Don't have rear LCA's to dial that in yet.

Zero toe in front I'm happy with eventually I'll try some toe-out for autox purposes. I ran zero toe in the rear for a few weeks and the car felt like it wandered on the freeway so I've got some toe-in back there, maybe not the fastest but I spend more time on public roads than private ones.

Best of luck

[DarkSunrise]

Most of the alignment settings people have been recommending (zero toe, -2.5 to -3.0 degrees front camber) are aimed at decreasing stock understeer.

I gather from his posts that OP actually wants the opposite:

Originally Posted by HatchirokuV2.0

I have noticed that the vehicle is prone to mainly oversteer (although yes, that was its intent from Toyota) and I'd like to be able to dial out that.

Stock alignment specs are already fairly conservative (slight toe-in, 0 front camber, -1.0 to -1.5 rear camber). I don't think you can feasibly do a whole lot there.

OP - I think the first step is get rid of the Eagle RS-A tires and replace them with proper performance summer tires (MPSS, RE71R, Z2SS, etc.) I have a feeling that will give you the rear traction you're looking for on exit. If that's not enough, Strano parts makes an affordable front sway bar that will shift the balance of the car more towards understeer (i.e., reduce oversteer).

[solidONE]

I think why most people who thing the stock frs suspension oversteers is simply because of how quickly (or easily) it can transition from under to over upon throttle input mid corner. Otherwise, even when you trailbrake into a turn on a stock FRS, the front end will plow. That is, unless you have some crazy toe out dialed in.

If you're thinking the FRS oversteers, then perhaps you can try the swift BRZ lowering springs (3.8k/4.5k). Having done this mod myself along with additional front camber via camber bolts this really help make the car handle much more predicable versus the completely stock suspension. less understeering corner entry and easier to control how the rear end rotates under throttle. The RCE springs (4.5k/4.5k?) are probably also a good choice.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I think why most people who thing the stock frs suspension oversteers is simply because of how quickly (or easily) it can transition from under to over upon throttle input mid corner. Otherwise, even when you trailbrake into a turn on a stock FRS, the front end will plow. That is, unless you have some crazy toe out dialed in.

If you're thinking the FRS oversteers, then perhaps you can try the swift BRZ lowering springs (3.8k/4.5k). Having done this mod myself along with additional front camber via camber bolts this really help make the car handle much more predicable versus the completely stock suspension. less understeering corner entry and easier to control how the rear end rotates under throttle. The RCE springs (4.5k/4.5k?) are probably also a good choice.

Pedal dance is your friend

[HatchirokuV2.0]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Pedal dance is your friend

I recently learned about Pedal Dance... It's drastically improved the capabilities of the vehicle. Coming from a Miata with ZERO driver aids, it reminds me a whole lot of my Miata. All of my Miatas were prone to oversteer, no matter what I did to the car. So, having something that is 100% mechanical now makes me feel a little more comfy. These RS-A's have 9/32"..... No chance I'm gonna get rid of them unless i can find a HELL of a deal on some stickier 215's (being as for now I'm constrained to stock wheels)

Is it safe to run this alignment on the car with stock tires and rims:

FRONT:
Camber -1.6*
Caster: 5.75*
Toe: 0*

REAR:
Camber: 1.2*
Toe: 0*

NO, I do not plan to use LCA's or adjustable anything, at the moment. I'm going to squeeze every ounce out of this cars stock capabilities and then see what I want to do. This car is a budget constricted one, that needs to maintain reliability. So modding the crap out of it right off the gate... NOPE.

[Sleepless]

Originally Posted by HatchirokuV2.0

NO, I do not plan to use LCA's or adjustable anything, at the moment. I'm going to squeeze every ounce out of this cars stock capabilities and then see what I want to do. This car is a budget constricted one, that needs to maintain reliability. So modding the crap out of it right off the gate... NOPE.

IMO that is the RIGHT way to approach these cars. They drive beautifully stock with just a good alignment (max camber front; get the OEM crash bolts; they are super cheap and if you are going to get an alignment, these are a cake to toss in). They tend to easily understeer and oversteer depending on what you tell them to do which just makes you a better driver if you can learn to drive the car "neutrally".

Regarding your alignment specs, I'm assuming you meant negative 1.2 rear camber so the only things I'd suggest is to get more front camber with the OEM crash bolts and put in a touch of toe in for the rear. But, again, it is driver preference.

[200hp/tonne]

When I had RCE yellows, I put ST front and rear sway bars as they are the softest set available above stock, and had 215 Pilot super sports. Combined with equal-ish camber on all 4 wheels from spc front crash bolts and rear control arms, it was a very neutral setup with hints of understeer/oversteer behavior caused by manipulating the throttle.

[Griever423]

I totally agree with the OP. I've always felt my BRZ is very "twitchy" with the TC and VSC off. I haven't used the pedal dance before but it seems to me the car rotates very easily with even a small amount of throttle input in a corner. I'm not talking about tracking or autocross, just street driving.

I don't need or want the car to be set up for the track because I don't track the car. I'm on the street 99.99% of the time.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by HatchirokuV2.0

I recently learned about Pedal Dance... It's drastically improved the capabilities of the vehicle. Coming from a Miata with ZERO driver aids, it reminds me a whole lot of my Miata. All of my Miatas were prone to oversteer, no matter what I did to the car. So, having something that is 100% mechanical now makes me feel a little more comfy. These RS-A's have 9/32"..... No chance I'm gonna get rid of them unless i can find a HELL of a deal on some stickier 215's (being as for now I'm constrained to stock wheels)

Is it safe to run this alignment on the car with stock tires and rims:

FRONT:
Camber -1.6*
Caster: 5.75*
Toe: 0*

REAR:
Camber: 1.2*
Toe: 0*

NO, I do not plan to use LCA's or adjustable anything, at the moment. I'm going to squeeze every ounce out of this cars stock capabilities and then see what I want to do. This car is a budget constricted one, that needs to maintain reliability. So modding the crap out of it right off the gate... NOPE.

12mm camber bolts work to adjust (+ or - .5 deg) camber in the rear, if you need it. Check rockauto.com for camber bolts for a chevy cobalt.

[HatchirokuV2.0]

Originally Posted by Sleepless

IMO that is the RIGHT way to approach these cars. They drive beautifully stock with just a good alignment (max camber front; get the OEM crash bolts; they are super cheap and if you are going to get an alignment, these are a cake to toss in). They tend to easily understeer and oversteer depending on what you tell them to do which just makes you a better driver if you can learn to drive the car "neutrally".

Regarding your alignment specs, I'm assuming you meant negative 1.2 rear camber so the only things I'd suggest is to get more front camber with the OEM crash bolts and put in a touch of toe in for the rear. But, again, it is driver preference.

- Now, what is the most appreciative bias when it comes to camber on this car?

Originally Posted by Griever423

I totally agree with the OP. I've always felt my BRZ is very "twitchy" with the TC and VSC off. I haven't used the pedal dance before but it seems to me the car rotates very easily with even a small amount of throttle input in a corner. I'm not talking about tracking or autocross, just street driving.

I don't need or want the car to be set up for the track because I don't track the car. I'm on the street 99.99% of the time.

Yes, the car feels very mechanical and snappy like an older sports car did when it came off the lot, brand new. Easier to manipulate...

Originally Posted by 200hp/tonne

When I had RCE yellows, I put ST front and rear sway bars as they are the softest set available above stock, and had 215 Pilot super sports. Combined with equal-ish camber on all 4 wheels from spc front crash bolts and rear control arms, it was a very neutral setup with hints of understeer/oversteer behavior caused by manipulating the throttle.

I've found myself inducing oversteer on purpose to exit corners quicker. It's very nifty but also a drawback when you're hitting uphill hair-pins and you lock up.