follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine, Exhaust, Transmission

Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-07-2020, 05:09 PM   #43
new2subaru
Weight Weenie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Drives: 15 FR-S
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,584
Thanks: 5,007
Thanked 2,330 Times in 1,346 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
Oh wow, sorry I should have put an "Automatic driver trigger warning!" on the top of my last post.

Again, it's cool that people buy automatics for personal reasons with these cars. But at least with the BRZ/86, the data is pretty ironclad that it is the worse transmission option, which is seldom the case these days.

It can go both ways though.


The AT shifts faster.


The AT holds more torque.


The AT is better suited to FI because of the above.


The AT, so far, is more reliable.


You can leave it in auto or shift "manually"


Change the diff gears and it'll be faster than the MT.



new2subaru is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to new2subaru For This Useful Post:
86TOYO2k17 (12-07-2020), mrg666 (12-07-2020)
Old 12-07-2020, 05:16 PM   #44
Goingnowherefast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: AP2 S2000, 91 Miata 1.8L Rotrex 5MT
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 465
Thanks: 275
Thanked 299 Times in 187 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by new2subaru View Post
It can go both ways though.

The AT shifts faster.

The AT holds more torque.

The AT is better suited to FI because of the above.

The AT, so far, is more reliable.

You can leave it in auto or shift "manually"

Change the diff gears and it'll be faster than the MT.

All of those can certainly be debated, except for #1.

Do we actually have any proof of say a 4.88 geared AT car against a 4.3 MT car?

Considering the manual has less transmission losses the FI debate can deff be argued.

Additionally, just know that when you are "shifting" with the paddles, you are simply requesting a shift to the TCU. You aren't actually shifting it "manually", but that's just semantics.
__________________
2022 Hyundai Elantra N 6MT SCCA TT S3//Will be back in an 86 eventually
Goingnowherefast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2020, 05:17 PM   #45
Tcoat
Senior Member
 
Tcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 69,845
Thanks: 61,656
Thanked 108,283 Times in 46,456 Posts
Mentioned: 2494 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
Oh wow, sorry I should have put an "Automatic driver trigger warning!" on the top of my last post.

Again, it's cool that people buy automatics for personal reasons with these cars. But at least with the BRZ/86, the data is pretty ironclad that it is the worse transmission option, which is seldom the case these days.
I don't drive an automatic. I haven't owned an automatic in 30 years.
It is only a "worse" option if you care about a bunch of numbers. I drive a car not a bunch of numbers. Guess the bench racer crowd is taking over here though.
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
Tcoat is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Tcoat For This Useful Post:
86TOYO2k17 (12-07-2020), Dadhawk (12-07-2020), mrg666 (12-07-2020), soundman98 (12-07-2020)
Old 12-07-2020, 05:22 PM   #46
Goingnowherefast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: AP2 S2000, 91 Miata 1.8L Rotrex 5MT
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 465
Thanks: 275
Thanked 299 Times in 187 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
I don't drive an automatic. I haven't owned an automatic in 30 years.
It is only a "worse" option if you care about a bunch of numbers. I drive a car not a bunch of numbers. Guess the bench racer crowd is taking over here though.
The "bunch of numbers" matter considering the high percentage of people that actually track their cars. Also one of the "bunch of numbers" was money... which is something that is important to basically everyone.

The subjective opinion that manuals are more fun/engaging is one that's shared by the majority of automotive enthusiasts - that's something you can't put a number on.
__________________
2022 Hyundai Elantra N 6MT SCCA TT S3//Will be back in an 86 eventually
Goingnowherefast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2020, 05:36 PM   #47
Tcoat
Senior Member
 
Tcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 69,845
Thanks: 61,656
Thanked 108,283 Times in 46,456 Posts
Mentioned: 2494 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
The "bunch of numbers" matter considering the high percentage of people that actually track their cars. Also one of the "bunch of numbers" was money... which is something that is important to basically everyone.

The subjective opinion that manuals are more fun/engaging is one that's shared by the majority of automotive enthusiasts - that's something you can't put a number on.
High percentage? You mean the 2 to 5%?
Stop with the "enthusiast" crap. A true "enthusiast" doesn't look down on others for their preferences. You are more of the elitist for something that was once upon a time so common it was called standard.
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
Tcoat is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Tcoat For This Useful Post:
86TOYO2k17 (12-07-2020), Dadhawk (12-07-2020), Ohio Enthusiast (12-07-2020)
Old 12-07-2020, 05:46 PM   #48
Capt Spaulding
Persona Non Grata
 
Capt Spaulding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Drives: '15 BRZ (WRB)
Location: On the Border
Posts: 1,882
Thanks: 2,016
Thanked 2,780 Times in 1,200 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
I still call it a standard gearbox. No one except humfrz seems to know what I'm talking about.
__________________
Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast
Capt Spaulding is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Capt Spaulding For This Useful Post:
bcj (12-08-2020)
Old 12-07-2020, 05:48 PM   #49
Dadhawk
1st86 Driver!
 
Dadhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S (#3 of 1st 86)
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 19,798
Thanks: 38,786
Thanked 24,907 Times in 11,362 Posts
Mentioned: 181 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding View Post
I still call it a standard gearbox. No one except humfrz seems to know what I'm talking about.
I've been known to use that turn of phrase as well.
__________________

Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S
Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark.
What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk".
Dadhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2020, 05:50 PM   #50
Tcoat
Senior Member
 
Tcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 69,845
Thanks: 61,656
Thanked 108,283 Times in 46,456 Posts
Mentioned: 2494 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding View Post
I still call it a standard gearbox. No one except humfrz seems to know what I'm talking about.
I do as well. Anybody under the age of 50 stares at me with a blank expression. They of course are the same crowd that think there is something magical about shifting gears so...
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
Tcoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2020, 05:53 PM   #51
soundman98
ProCrastinationConsultant
 
soundman98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Drives: '14 Ranger, '18 Tacoma 4Dr LB
Location: chicago-ish
Posts: 11,326
Thanks: 35,214
Thanked 13,661 Times in 6,778 Posts
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
would have to confirm with someone from across the pond @JD001, but i believe in the EU, 'standard' is the typical definition for a manual transmission...

i'm under 50 and i know exactly what a 'standard' transmission is...
__________________
"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time"
soundman98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2020, 05:56 PM   #52
new2subaru
Weight Weenie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Drives: 15 FR-S
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,584
Thanks: 5,007
Thanked 2,330 Times in 1,346 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
All of those can certainly be debated, except for #1.

Do we actually have any proof of say a 4.88 geared AT car against a 4.3 MT car?

Considering the manual has less transmission losses the FI debate can deff be argued.

Additionally, just know that when you are "shifting" with the paddles, you are simply requesting a shift to the TCU. You aren't actually shifting it "manually", but that's just semantics.

It's all debatable even the quicker shifting times . I'm just tossing out a different perspective. Different strokes for different folks.
new2subaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2020, 06:05 PM   #53
Dadhawk
1st86 Driver!
 
Dadhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S (#3 of 1st 86)
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 19,798
Thanks: 38,786
Thanked 24,907 Times in 11,362 Posts
Mentioned: 181 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
So, for 2020, the enthusiast has these slim pickings, per Motor Trend. Still some decent but limited choices:

Aston Martin Vantage
BMW 2 and 4 Series
Chevrolet Camaro, Spark
Chevrolet C7 Corvette (if you can find a new one)
Dodge Challenger
Fiat 124 Spider
Ford Mustang
Genesis G70
Honda Accord, Civic and Fit
Hyndai Accent, Elantra GT, Veloster
Kia Forte, Forte GT
Lotus Evora
Mazda 3, MX-5
Mitsubishi Mirage
Nissan 370Z, Versa
Subaru Impreza/WRX/STI
Toyota Corolla, Yaris
Volkswagen Golf/Golf GTI, Jetta
Subaru BRZ / Toyota 86
Porsche Boxter, Cayman, 911
__________________

Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S
Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark.
What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk".

Last edited by Dadhawk; 12-08-2020 at 07:07 AM. Reason: Corrected model year
Dadhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dadhawk For This Useful Post:
JesseG (12-08-2020), therealstoly (12-07-2020)
Old 12-07-2020, 06:20 PM   #54
86TOYO2k17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 2017 toyota 86
Location: PNW
Posts: 2,131
Thanks: 336
Thanked 1,188 Times in 781 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
Let's talk about the numbers then.

-The manual 0-60 is 1.5 seconds quicker than the automatic. That is objectively better.

-The manual 5-60 is .2 seconds quicker than the automatic. That is objectively better.

-The manual costs $1,100 dollars less than the automatic. That is objectively better.

-The manual is ~60 lbs lighter than similar trimmed automatic cars. That is objectively better.

Where exactly is the confusion at?
I thought you where disputing the .2sec. I see now you meant despite what i said it doesn’t paint a different picture.

I would argue.

1. Who cares about stop light racing? Especially in a slow car regardless MT or AT.

2. .2sec from a roll isn’t much. You wouldn’t notice a difference from a driver perspective.

3. Valid

4. 60lbs really doesn’t make a substantial difference. It is better but minimally

And

5. Auto can shift both manually and automatically. 90%+ of the time this is an advantage. Really the only benefit to MT trans is the closer gearing for “spirited” driving. 5 useable gears vs 4. With more power this becomes a lot less prevalent especially when traction issues become greater and greater.

6. Automatic is rated to handle a lot more torque no need for a CD009 swap to make big power.

7. AT Shifts faster

8. Spouse can drive the car (could be pro or con) but in emergency if need be it’s an option.

9. AT gets better MPG
86TOYO2k17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2020, 06:21 PM   #55
soundman98
ProCrastinationConsultant
 
soundman98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Drives: '14 Ranger, '18 Tacoma 4Dr LB
Location: chicago-ish
Posts: 11,326
Thanks: 35,214
Thanked 13,661 Times in 6,778 Posts
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
toyota tacoma is available in manual transmission as well. it is possible to be a truck enthusiast...
__________________
"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time"
soundman98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2020, 06:30 PM   #56
86TOYO2k17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 2017 toyota 86
Location: PNW
Posts: 2,131
Thanks: 336
Thanked 1,188 Times in 781 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
All of those can certainly be debated, except for #1.

Do we actually have any proof of say a 4.88 geared AT car against a 4.3 MT car?

Considering the manual has less transmission losses the FI debate can deff be argued.
.
AT handles more torque. It’s a fact based on both manufacturers torque rating as well as enthusiasts testing out the platforms.

AT supposedly shifts in .2seconds (I think its closer to .3, but VB swap dropped it to sub .2) I believe the fastest manual shifters do it in about .25sec with typical driver being .4seconds.

4.88 AT will beat a 4.3 MT from certain speeds to certain speeds varies drastically based on what speeds those are (if you know how FD gearing works you’ll understand what i mean)

The AT has about 2-3% more drivetrain loss. It’s not like in the olden days where it was 5%+ the difference is minimal. But AT can handle about 20% more torque so you could say it will reliably handle 17-18% more torque to the wheels.
86TOYO2k17 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
automatic, manual

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which transmission do you have ? Manual or Automatic ? PRO Import Tuners Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 14 08-24-2012 09:21 AM
FT-86, manual or automatic transmission??? luisjr Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 22 07-25-2012 03:00 AM
Power difference between automatic and manual? Eurasianman Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 5 05-02-2012 04:14 PM
Automatic vs Manual Rabble Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 26 12-05-2011 01:55 PM
BRZ manual or automatic? f1ver BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics 23 08-30-2011 09:07 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.