2020 tS pricing (MD)

[2020BRZtS]

Originally Posted by Alistia

I understand the viewpoint haha been waiting for this car since 2014. I extended a last ditch offer which tries to meet in the middle but won't find out till tomorrow morning as I called the sales guy's cell as he was otw home.

Looks like you are in PA - did you stick with the stock 4S summer tires on your tS or did you swap out to something like the Conti Extreme Contact or the Mich A/S 3+? if I snag the tS, I think I would swap out to an ultra high performance AS and just sell the summer 4S that come on the tS.

Everything on my car is stock except lighting and tint.

[Tomm]

Originally Posted by J1Avs

What do you plan on doing with the car? If you don’t plan on tracking/autoXing it, the tS is overkill, and the performance pack as well. The car doesn’t NEED Brembos for daily driving. You’ll often see many people with the stock brake setup on track.

If you also plan on changing much of the car, the 2020 tS isn’t entirely worth it...but knowing your plans would help you come to a decision.

This.

I bought an FRS for this reason, I knew I was going to swap the wheels/suspension/bolt ons/exterior parts so why pay a premium if you know you're going to ditch them.

Also I want pics of the OP's future(?) car.

[why?]

Originally Posted by Alistia

I understand the viewpoint haha been waiting for this car since 2014. I extended a last ditch offer which tries to meet in the middle but won't find out till tomorrow morning as I called the sales guy's cell as he was otw home.

Looks like you are in PA - did you stick with the stock 4S summer tires on your tS or did you swap out to something like the Conti Extreme Contact or the Mich A/S 3+? if I snag the tS, I think I would swap out to an ultra high performance AS and just sell the summer 4S that come on the tS.

If you do buy keep the summer tires. They are far superior 3 seasons out of the year. You can get winter tires on separate wheels that you can switch out in weather that is too cold for the summers. Even the best all season tires are a massive compromise and not as good as the summer tires.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Alistia

While I understand from the value/performance view points... I would look to keep this car pristine and into the abyss. Specs/performance view while keeping it under $35K is the goal... which is why I have been waiting for a 2.4L or a turbo since 2014 haha.

Waiting for that "perfect" version rarely pays off.

Originally Posted by Alistia

Agreed, I dont discount that it is a great deal.

However, compared to competition (mustang ecoboost, etc) isnt the BRZ tS in general overpriced for what it is NA 4 cyl 2.0L? Especially how fast it depreciates historically?

The production numbers alone allow the Mustang to be less expensive. They sell scads of base models at high profit for every one with performance packages allowing them to make money.


It has been proven time and time again that the BRZ fall almost directly in the middle of the average when it comes to depreciation. Yes there are cars that hold value better but there are just as many that lose it way faster.
What happens when the Gen 2 comes out remains to be seen but there are only three possible scenarios.
1) It is a meh seller and the value of the first Gen stays about the same
2) It is a total piece of crap and the value of the first Gen cars goes through the roof.
3) It is spectacular and the value of the first Gen drops like a pair of pants at a nudist colony.
Of course both the up or down changes will depend completely on supply and demand. Good second Gen and the market is flooded with first. Bad second Gen and the first get's hard to get.

Originally Posted by Alistia

I understand the viewpoint haha been waiting for this car since 2014. I extended a last ditch offer which tries to meet in the middle but won't find out till tomorrow morning as I called the sales guy's cell as he was otw home.
.

Your task is to get the car for a price you can accept. The dealer's/salesperson's task is to make money and feed their family. As much as it is great to try to get the car as cheap as possible there will always be a point where they simply can not go any lower. They are not a charity they are a business so that is not unreasonable.

Originally Posted by HaXx

i would buy a used brz with 35k miles for fifteen grand. i almost feel bad for people that spend 30 thousand dollars on a bone stock brz. unpopular opinion, so ill see myself out. welcome to the club.

edit: i didnt read tcoats post before writing this, and the arguement above, of getting a final edition before the car potentially loses everything great about it, is a true honest opinion from someone who really appreciated this platform. i appreciate that mindset.

This gets said so often but people need to understand that SOMEBODY has to pay new car prices for there to be used cars.

There are also distinct advantages to buying new that can not be ignored or diminished no matter what arguments are put forward.
1) You know exactly what you are getting. Is there a remote chance that somebody did something in 10 or so miles? Sure but there is little chance they hurt anything. The possibilities of something being damaged in a couple of years and 35K miles are endless. You would never even know until it blew up in your face.
2) It is easier and in the long run cheap to finance a new car. Not everybody has cash to run out and buy a car. The finance rates for used over new can sometimes be almost double. The money you think you are saving can quickly be chewed up.
3) Warranty! You will probably never need it but if you do...
4) The biggest and most often ignored or not even conceived is by buying only used you lose your say in what the companies make. I always chuckle when I read somebody screaming "only morons buy new" (not looking at you there Hax but in general) in one thread and then lamenting the decline of the MT or "poor" sales numbers in another. The companies base all of their decisions and future plans on NEW cars sold. They don't give a rat's ass if a MT car sold 20 times as used. They do care if they sell 20 new MTs for every AT though. People can not only buy used and then complain about what is coming out new. It is ironic that the people buying dirt cheap used ones to counter depreciation are one of the main reasons that the new ones deprecate! The used market value is based upon average resale values so any large number of cheap ones will drive the resale down.


Advantages to buying used
1) You save some money. Maybe. If it hasn't been beat on too badly and cost you a pile in repairs.
2) It can put somebody in the car that just simply could not do it new. Really just a repeat of #1 I guess.
3) You are going to throw away half the parts anyway. SHIT that is #1 again.

[J1Avs]

So we went from is this a good deal -- to is it worth it over a performance package -- to is a good deal vs a mustang -- to swapping out arguably the best tire in its class for an All-Season? I'll also completely ignore the fact you 100% ignored my feedback, being a tS owner and a heavily modified one at that...

The tS is a limited edition car -- you pretty much know if you want that model or not.

If you don't want to spend the money -- get the base model.

If you aren't going to use the Brembo's for what they are/ will be upset they squeal/are loud -- get the base model.

If you plan on street modifying the hell out of the car -- get the base model and save the money now.

I have a tS -- and I love the appearance of the 2018's which keeps me happy -- but I ripped off the wheel/tire package, and the STI spring/dampener combo for Fortune510s, slapped on a JRSC, and changed just about everything else...do I regret it, no, but that's me. Would I recommend others do it, definitely not.

[J1Avs]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Waiting for that "perfect" version rarely pays off.


The production numbers alone allow the Mustang to be less expensive. They sell scads of base models at high profit for every one with performance packages allowing them to make money.


It has been proven time and time again that the BRZ fall almost directly in the middle of the average when it comes to depreciation. Yes there are cars that hold value better but there are just as many that lose it way faster.
What happens when the Gen 2 comes out remains to be seen but there are only three possible scenarios.
1) It is a meh seller and the value of the first Gen stays about the same
2) It is a total piece of crap and the value of the first Gen cars goes through the roof.
3) It is spectacular and the value of the first Gen drops like a pair of pants at a nudist colony.
Of course both the up or down changes will depend completely on supply and demand. Good second Gen and the market is flooded with first. Bad second Gen and the first get's hard to get.


Your task is to get the car for a price you can accept. The dealer's/salesperson's task is to make money and feed their family. As much as it is great to try to get the car as cheap as possible there will always be a point where they simply can not go any lower. They are not a charity they are a business so that is not unreasonable.




This gets said so often but people need to understand that SOMEBODY has to pay new car prices for there to be used cars.

There are also distinct advantages to buying new that can not be ignored or diminished no matter what arguments are put forward.
1) You know exactly what you are getting. Is there a remote chance that somebody did something in 10 or so miles? Sure but there is little chance they hurt anything. The possibilities of something being damaged in a couple of years and 35K miles are endless. You would never even know until it blew up in your face.
2) It is easier and in the long run cheap to finance a new car. Not everybody has cash to run out and buy a car. The finance rates for used over new can sometimes be almost double. The money you think you are saving can quickly be chewed up.
3) Warranty! You will probably never need it but if you do...
4) The biggest and most often ignored or not even conceived is by buying only used you lose your say in what the companies make. I always chuckle when I read somebody screaming "only morons buy new" (not looking at you there Hax but in general) in one thread and then lamenting the decline of the MT or "poor" sales numbers in another. The companies base all of their decisions and future plans on NEW cars sold. They don't give a rat's ass if a MT car sold 20 times as used. They do care if they sell 20 new MTs for every AT though. People can not only buy used and then complain about what is coming out new. It is ironic that the people buying dirt cheap used ones to counter depreciation are one of the main reasons that the new ones deprecate! The used market value is based upon average resale values so any large number of cheap ones will drive the resale down.


Advantages to buying used
1) You save some money. Maybe. If it hasn't been beat on too badly and cost you a pile in repairs.
2) It can put somebody in the car that just simply could not do it new. Really just a repeat of #1 I guess.
3) You are going to throw away half the parts anyway. SHIT that is #1 again.

Nail on the head tcoat!

I personally always buy new (unless there is some crazy deal), because of what people generally do to cars in this segment. I was looking hard for a clean WRX Hatch, and you could find the cleanest exterior only to start digging around and see what was really done to it.

I am buying a car to track it...personally, I don't want unknown headaches because someone was a moron with their car. I'll pay the extra few bucks to make sure it doesn't fail at 100mph.

I'm also weird though -- I also only buy new homes or rent new apartments...maybe I'm just a snob

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There are also distinct advantages to buying new that can not be ignored or diminished no matter what arguments are put forward.
....
3) Warranty! You will probably never need it but if you do...

Even though I buy more used than new I do agree with your points and it figures into my thoughts when I decide which one to buy.

One thing though, it is very possible to buy a used car with a factory warranty, as long as it is still within the parameters of the warranty.

I've purchased multiple used cars, from both private sellers and dealerships, that were still under warranty. One of them (a 1977 Honda Civic CVCC) was repainted under warranty after I purchased it. I've had other, more minor, work done on used cars under the original manufacturer's warranty.

@Tcoat I'm sure you probably knew that and it was an oversight (unless warranties work different in Canada, I don't know) but a lot of people don't realize that so I wanted to make it clear.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Even though I buy more used than new I do agree with your points and it figures into my thoughts when I decide which one to buy.

One thing though, it is very possible to buy a used car with a factory warranty, as long as it is still within the parameters of the warranty.

I've purchased multiple used cars, from both private sellers and dealerships, that were still under warranty. One of them (a 1977 Honda Civic CVCC) was repainted under warranty after I purchased it. I've had other, more minor, work done on used cars under the original manufacturer's warranty.

@Tcoat I'm sure you probably knew that and it was an oversight (unless warranties work different in Canada, I don't know) but a lot of people don't realize that so I wanted to make it clear.

Yes warranties carry over and can even be purchased as extended. I wasn't very clear though When I mentioned warranty I was speaking to the length it would be in effect. If I buy a 2 year 8 month old car with a 3 year warranty on it then I am covered for 4 months. Now, odds are anything that is likely to happen would have already but I prefer to have the longer period of coverage.
Now, having said that, like you I pile the miles on so warranties run out on distance well before I ever hit the time limit. In this case the used car is probably a hard sell anyway since people like to look at mileage with more meaning than it should have. How those miles were built up and how the car was maintained need to be considered not just the number.
Then there are the cases such as this one where the warranty was "voided" for whatever reason. We know that it can not be voided outright but service can be refused if changes to the vehicle can be proven to be the issue. I would much rather take my new car in with a warranty covered issue and say "please fix it" then have to go through the battle that would result if the former owner had boosted to 40, changed the tune 26 times and the only original part under the hood was the engine block.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I would much rather take my new car in with a warranty covered issue and say "please fix it" then have to go through the battle that would result if the former owner had boosted to 40, changed the tune 26 times and the only original part under the hood was the engine block.

True, but I wouldn't have bought that car in the first place.

Any used car I buy goes to my mechanic and he gives it a thorough going over, and gives me a list of squawks. I consider them all before buying, and if there are warranty items before the buy I ask the seller to take care of them in advance of the purchase.

Basically, I'm a pain in the ass to sell a used car to!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

True, but I wouldn't have bought that car in the first place.

Any used car I buy goes to my mechanic and he gives it a thorough going over, and gives me a list of squawks. I consider them all before buying, and if there are warranty items before the buy I ask the seller to take care of them in advance of the purchase.

Basically, I'm a pain in the ass to sell a used car to!

We bought our first used car in about 15 years back in October when my wife decided the 17 Impreza was not big enough to haul Ultra around New York. We got a great deal on a lease return on an 18 Outback. The previous owners only did about 7K miles a year on a two year lease and had all of the service done at the dealer. Where I would normally have had it checked out I figured it was so well documented that I had no concerns. It turned out it had a bit of brake noise in the front and they fixed that right away so wasn't an issue really.
Most of the "used" cars I ever bought were well used $500 beaters that if I could keep it on the road for over 6 months without sinking money into it I was more than happy.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Most of the "used" cars I ever bought were well used $500 beaters that if I could keep it on the road for over 6 months without sinking money into it I was more than happy.

Yea, I've had my share of those too, although it's been a couple of decades.

[Alistia]

I appreciate all of your input and I think my wife would agree with you that I have been all over the place. I ended up getting that car for 29,700 and with tax title and tag I walked out almost 1K under the 32,995 MSRP.... I personally feel I got a great deal and couldnt walk away from this deal and a tS for the sole reason of the rumor of the 2021/22 2.4L coming eventually.

Sorry for all the back and forth but this was an emotional purchase for me haha. But I am apart of the brz family as of tomorrow when I pick it up.