Viability of complete FA24 swap (motor and ECU)?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

Ah, with a standalone all is possible. But it'll cost yah.

Anything is always possible if you throw enough time and money at it. The question that comes up is when exactly does it stop being worth that time and money?

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Sevs753

I'm curious, why 17+? What's different with the 13-16 cars that would prevent that from being an option?

Going to guess that the reluctor wheel/crank position sensor is of the same style in the 17+ cars as the gen 2. On a pre-facelift car it would require a bastardised reluctor wheel to get the earlier style crank position sensor to read it.

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Going to guess that the reluctor wheel/crank position sensor is of the same style in the 17+ cars as the gen 2. On a pre-facelift car it would require a bastardised reluctor wheel to get the earlier style crank position sensor to read it.

Yup - that's what I was thinking as well.

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

Ah, with a standalone all is possible. But it'll cost yah.

Yeah, I went the standalone route with my last car (because it was the only tuning option available), and while I was overall happy with it in the end, two years of ironing out minor drivability issues because I am super picky about that stuff was not super fun. With this car and the tuning capabilities of ECUTEK on the stock ECU, I want to stay away from going standalone.

A custom harness to connect the FA24 motor to the 17+ ECU sounds like a possibility, and the ECU is definitely flexible enough to handle the extra 20% displacement if it can handle FI. Maybe that will be the best way forward?

Again, though, it will be a while before FA24's become more readily available at a less-than-stratospheric price to even give it a try.

[FrickingReallySlow]

If you want to stay on the platform at this point an FA20 built block + turbo/SC on first gen is probably still the most economical way to get more power + "reliability" even factory FA24 won't have rods as strong or king bearings with the tight exact clearances compared to Crawford/IAG. plus you don't have to mess with ECU/harnesses etc in the $10K range.

Otherwise get a supra B58 baby

[geraldjust]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

Ah, with a standalone all is possible. But it'll cost yah.

if a standalone on a Gen1 car with a custom harness on the engine bay side could work. But so would tuning a custom tune file using ecutek and accounting for the displacement in the tune itself. The tune option only works on 17+ ecus.

[geraldjust]

Originally Posted by Sevs753

I'm curious, why 17+? What's different with the 13-16 cars that would prevent that from being an option?

17+ crank sensor/wheel is the same as 22+. would be easier to run a 22 engine with a 17+ ecu.

[Scourge]

I'm in a similar situation. My 2017 Toyota 86 is dead in the water right now. Spun a bearing. So, I'll need an engine anyway. Or at least a new crankshaft and rods. Without having to buy costly 3rd party parts (like K-series motor mounts, intake manifold that points the right way, ECU, wiring harness, etc), I'd like to be able to reuse as much from my stock setup as I can. I'm wondering specifically about the FA24D, and not the FA24F.

I'm hoping the block just drops in and uses the same sensors as the GR86. Anyone know if the 17-20 heads are the same as the 22+?

Alternatively, is there enough material to bore the stock FA20D to 96mm? It'll take 4mm off all around. I want to avoid buying sleeves unless I absolutely have to. Like if it's cheaper than sourcing out a KA24D.

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by Scourge

I'm in a similar situation. My 2017 Toyota 86 is dead in the water right now. Spun a bearing. So, I'll need an engine anyway. Or at least a new crankshaft and rods. Without having to buy costly 3rd party parts (like K-series motor mounts, intake manifold that points the right way, ECU, wiring harness, etc), I'd like to be able to reuse as much from my stock setup as I can. I'm wondering specifically about the FA24D, and not the FA24F.

I'm hoping the block just drops in and uses the same sensors as the GR86. Anyone know if the 17-20 heads are the same as the 22+?

Alternatively, is there enough material to bore the stock FA20D to 96mm? It'll take 4mm off all around. I want to avoid buying sleeves unless I absolutely have to. Like if it's cheaper than sourcing out a KA24D.

The 17-20 heads and the 22+ are NOT the same, but from what I understand so far, the 17-20 heads will bolt up to the FA24D block. They should be machined to work with the larger bore and keep the compression ratio reasonable. From pictures, it seems the valve reliefs in the piston tops are in different places as well, so that would need to be rectified somehow - either with machining or custom pistons, or some other method.

There is NOT enough room to bore the FA20D out without re-sleeving, and I haven't been able to find anyone that makes sleeves big enough for a 96mm bore anyway. Biggest I'm aware of are LA Sleeve's ones that allow for an 89mm bore.

As for whether the sensors, etc. are the same, nobody seems to know for sure at this point. Chances are good there are differences, but how significant they are / how difficult to work around, who knows?

Unless you have the budget and time to be the first one to figure it out, you're probably just best to rebuild your FA20 or buy another one.

[KillerBMotorsport]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

A custom harness to connect the FA24 motor to the 17+ ECU sounds like a possibility, and the ECU is definitely flexible enough to handle the extra 20% displacement if it can handle FI. Maybe that will be the best way forward?

I'm sure this will eventually happen. On the EJ side, these kinds of swaps are VERY common. Take a newer bigger engine and plop it into an older car. Swap some sensors, custom wire some things on the engine harness, and custom tune. Heck I-wire even makes some parts just for swaps like this. I've even seen guys put Dual AVCS engines into Single AVCS cars, and disabling the exhaust AVCS. It works just fine and gets you into a newer lower mileage engine. People figure this stuff out, but it takes time. We've had turbo EJs in the states for over 20 years now.

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

Again, though, it will be a while before FA24's become more readily available at a less-than-stratospheric price to even give it a try.

I think as more units come out on the market, more wanting to mod them, and more cars come out of circulation, ie; crashed. The price/benefit will become more advantageous, and likely more common. At some point the aftermarket will likely support it. IMO, if the swap can be done for $4,500 that's an easy decision vs the cost of modding to make the same power. Plus the larger displacement means any mod path is only going to be more fruitful as well.

We bought a complete 200 mile engine for $6,500. Higher mileage and not fully dressed can likely be had for less at some point in the future, but we're several years away from that I think.

[NoHaveMSG]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27558178386...Bk9SR_iQg6rCYQ

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27558178386...Bk9SR_iQg6rCYQ

I can speak to this eBay seller being legit.
I just got my k24 from their shop in person as they're local to me. Honestly, all things considered compared to FA20's that's not a bad price.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

I can speak to this eBay seller being legit.
I just got my k24 from their shop in person as they're local to me. Honestly, all things considered compared to FA20's that's not a bad price.

If I didn't still have things to finish with my house remodel I would be making a poor financial decision right now.

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport

We bought a complete 200 mile engine for $6,500. Higher mileage and not fully dressed can likely be had for less at some point in the future, but we're several years away from that I think.

Any hints on what you plan to DO with that engine?