Tesla Cyber Truck (Most Hideous Truck/Tank Ever)

[alex87f]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Tesla is definitely taking a page out of Henry Ford's book with the Model T. Sell 'em in numbers that keep the factories at 100% and drop the price when you can to keep competition struggling to catch up.

That said, the Tesla exterior design wasn't great to begin with (IMO), and its stale with no sign they plan to update it (unless I just missed it, I don't track it closely). Even the new Roadster has that same basic look, but at least it has some style to it.

We've already talked about the spartan interiors. It is definitely not everyone's cup of tea.

I do think they will capture some additional buyers with lower pricing (and availability) but for most purchasers there isn't a real drive to buy EV. Most of those they capture early will be persons that would have bought Tesla if it had been in their price range, or those that are bound and determined to go EV as their primary or only vehicle (due to the charging network).

Tesla has done an amazing job of starting from zero and now being the 15th largest car producer in the world, and largest pure EV producer. although BYD is a close second. As other manufacturers convert over it will be interesting to see if price alone plays in as a huge factor.

The interior and exterior desgin might also be a "function over form" a la Ford. Build a single design that isn't unappealing to any market, meets all crash test regs and doesn't age too quickly. Build an interior that easily converts from LHD to RHD with minimal specific parts and is simple enough to appeal to most people, etc.

Curious what their next moves are going to be. Their range is getting old and they've struggled with new product timelines. At this rate, the Cybertruck may be old stuff by the time it's released.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by alex87f

Their range is getting old and they've struggled with new product timelines. At this rate, the Cybertruck may be old stuff by the time it's released.

I think some of the struggle with timelines is that they don't have the capacity to build new products, particularly ones that may rival the Model 3 in volume. Better to hold off then underproduce perhaps?

[MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires]

cybertruck is vaporware

[Irace86.2.0]

[Irace86.2.0]

Munro has a breakdown of the Octovalve and Supermanifold too. Years old, but worth highlighting.

[Irace86.2.0]

More aftermarket buttons. See what you did to my algorithm @Dadhawk

It’s clickbait. It isn’t from Tesla.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

More aftermarket buttons. See what you did to my algorithm @Dadhawk

Sorry about that.

[soundman98]

It's fox news, so mileage may vary, I intend to try to look into the study more later. But the study is claiming that it's currently cheaper to use a gas vehicle than an ev.

I suspect the numbers can be gamed to make ev or gas an advantage, and they're either not accounting for something, or factoring too much of something else.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/...onsulting-firm

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by soundman98

It's fox news, so mileage may vary, I intend to try to look into the study more later. But the study is claiming that it's currently cheaper to use a gas vehicle than an ev.

I suspect the numbers can be gamed to make ev or gas an advantage, and they're either not accounting for something, or factoring too much of something else.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/...onsulting-firm

AFAIK Electricity prices will be significantly lower if you charge from home, and theres a low chance gas prices will ever beat that.

HOWEVER its where you live and if you are charging at fast charging stations where the electricity prices seems to vary considerably, and thats where its possible for it to cost more than a gas car. But because of its wildly varying amounts you cant simply conclude that it will cost more to charge an EV than it would to fill up a gas car.

The thing with EV's that no one wants to admit is that the savings are a long term thing. You won't see the savings until you first make up that price difference between equivalent EV and ICE and that could take several years to cancel each other out.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

AFAIK Electricity prices will be significantly lower if you charge from home, and theres a low chance gas prices will ever beat that.

HOWEVER its where you live and if you are charging at fast charging stations where the electricity prices seems to vary considerably, and thats where its possible for it to cost more than a gas car. But because of its wildly varying amounts you cant simply conclude that it will cost more to charge an EV than it would to fill up a gas car.

The thing with EV's that no one wants to admit is that the savings are a long term thing. You won't see the savings until you first make up that price difference between equivalent EV and ICE and that could take several years to cancel each other out.

The analysis compared "mostly charging at home" and "mostly charging commercially" with ICEs, and they found that mid priced ICEs were cheaper to fuel than both EV scenarios, but that luxury EVs were definitely cheaper, noting that we don't have enough economy or truck options to compare. They did not consider the full cost of ownership, including things like maintenance expenses, but they did include the cost to drive to a charging location or gas station. I'm assuming they are talking about a supercharger station and not a free level two charging location. It doesn't really say if they are including hybrids in the quoted figures for ICEs.

By their calculations and the article's comments, ICEs were cheaper the EVs to fuel, but then gas prices shot up, and now that gas prices are back down, ICEs are back to being cheaper.

I agree that there is something off because the cost in fuel savings per year is typically posted on the Monroney sticker, and it is a significant savings:

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by soundman98

It's fox news, so mileage may vary, I intend to try to look into the study more later. But the study is claiming that it's currently cheaper to use a gas vehicle than an ev.

I suspect the numbers can be gamed to make ev or gas an advantage, and they're either not accounting for something, or factoring too much of something else.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/...onsulting-firm

I found the report:

https://s3-prod.autonews.com/2023-01...4%20Update.pdf

Pretty sparse, even for a preview, but it seems that they are not including the savings in maintenance, and they are not transparent about what cars are included in each category, so are all hybrids excluded or included in the ICEs? Is a Model 3 mid or luxury on their account? But here is the interesting thing: they included the cost of the home chargers to the equation; I don't know if they calculated the average cost to install a 240v system in the garage or run a line outside, and to install a level two charger, and it is unclear if they are averaging that price over the life of the car or of the life of the owners or just that first year of install. They don't really explain, but if they didn't include that cost then the price of the mid level EV would be cheaper to run, as you can see below.

It really doesn't make sense to add that price, especially without explaining the price better, but the main reason why it doesn't make sense is because it would be considered a home upgrade, which would increased the resale value of the home like installing an upgraded furnace or water heater or whatever. The cost would be recuperated. It is also a one time purchase where someone could install the system in their garage in their twenties, and then use it until they die in the eighties, so the cost isn't significant over the life of the household.

Considering that fact and the fact that they didn't include maintenance costs or detailed explanations, I'm calling

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The analysis compared "mostly charging at home" and "mostly charging commercially" with ICEs, and they found that mid priced ICEs were cheaper to fuel than both EV scenarios, but that luxury EVs were definitely cheaper, noting that we don't have enough economy or truck options to compare.

Not sure they considered all scenarios when charging at home. For example, if I had an EV I could charge for free at home (between 11p and 6a, up to 400KwH per month) and I can charge at work for free, within view of my office window.

[NoHaveMSG]

Cost of install and value added is going to very greatly on the home and area. For me it would be cheap, I have a 50amp and 30amp 220 breakers with nothing hooked up to them and could run it myself. My parents just payed 7-800 bucks including the cost of the level 2 charger to have theirs installed. If you don't have enough service to your house it is going to be very expensive. I think in 5-10 years it may be a bigger deal to have a house with a charger already installed. In my area, it is more of a novelty.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I found the report:

https://s3-prod.autonews.com/2023-01...4%20Update.pdf

Pretty sparse, even for a preview, but it seems that they are not including the savings in maintenance, and they are not transparent about what cars are included in each category, so are all hybrids excluded or included in the ICEs? Is a Model 3 mid or luxury on their account? But here is the interesting thing: they included the cost of the home chargers to the equation; I don't know if they calculated the average cost to install a 240v system in the garage or run a line outside, and to install a level two charger, and it is unclear if they are averaging that price over the life of the car or of the life of the owners or just that first year of install. They don't really explain, but if they didn't include that cost then the price of the mid level EV would be cheaper to run, as you can see below.

It really doesn't make sense to add that price, especially without explaining the price better, but the main reason why it doesn't make sense is because it would be considered a home upgrade, which would increased the resale value of the home like installing an upgraded furnace or water heater or whatever. The cost would be recuperated. It is also a one time purchase where someone could install the system in their garage in their twenties, and then use it until they die in the eighties, so the cost isn't significant over the life of the household.

Considering that fact and the fact that they didn't include maintenance costs or detailed explanations, I'm calling

i was really hoping to figure out where the financing for the study came from. i bet it's not from tesla or rivian.

i could understand adding the charger install cost if they were accounting for all maintenance costs for any energy source, but by only doing it for ev's, it's like only counting tires as the entire maintenance cost for an ice..