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BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe


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Old 05-13-2021, 08:30 AM   #15
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It’s like why not put a decent engine in for replacement. Why stick with a Subaru, especially if you have an FRS or 86.
Maybe trying to keep the low center of gravity? Tim Schrick is participating in the VLN Endurance Racing Nürburgring championship and he replaced the engine with an older EJ20 motor. This year replaced it again with a six-cylinder EG33 motor.

https://www.motul.com/de/en/news/eve...z-in-the-world
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Old 05-13-2021, 09:46 AM   #16
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It’s like why not put a decent engine in for replacement. Why stick with a Subaru, especially if you have an FRS or 86.
My thought was you blow an engine and if the swap was easy you just put the new one in. If it was as complicated as putting any engine in there, then there may be better options. Keeping the lower center of gravity and lightweight would be important to me. No LS swaps for me. Sounds like if my engine goes I just put a similar one in.

I had not seen anyone mention it so I figure let’s throw it out there and let the greatest minds on the internet figure it out.
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Old 05-13-2021, 11:18 AM   #17
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Maybe trying to keep the low center of gravity? Tim Schrick is participating in the VLN Endurance Racing Nürburgring championship and he replaced the engine with an older EJ20 motor. This year replaced it again with a six-cylinder EG33 motor.

https://www.motul.com/de/en/news/eve...z-in-the-world
Yes the CG is important however I THINK the Honda motor is lighter which may cancel out the higher CG of the motor.
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Old 05-13-2021, 05:45 PM   #18
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I'm in on a FA24 swap when it becomes viable. I'm too old for exhausts, rumble, and edgy motors.

When a drop-in FA24 is available I'll have funding ready.

I'm hoping that I can take a bare FA24 long block, swap over all the sensors/injection/etc., and RUN IT (with a tune and maybe bigger injectors).

In a year or two...
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Old 05-13-2021, 06:26 PM   #19
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Maybe trying to keep the low center of gravity? Tim Schrick is participating in the VLN Endurance Racing Nürburgring championship and he replaced the engine with an older EJ20 motor. This year replaced it again with a six-cylinder EG33 motor.

https://www.motul.com/de/en/news/eve...z-in-the-world
While the engine itself has a low centre of gravity, it sits very high in the engine bay. If I remember correctly, the K24 swap actually lowers the COG because they can lower the entire engine.
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Old 05-13-2021, 07:15 PM   #20
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The Honda K24 looks like a better option.
This guy knows.
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Old 05-13-2021, 07:26 PM   #21
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I'm in on a FA24 swap when it becomes viable. I'm too old for exhausts, rumble, and edgy motors.

When a drop-in FA24 is available I'll have funding ready.

I'm hoping that I can take a bare FA24 long block, swap over all the sensors/injection/etc., and RUN IT (with a tune and maybe bigger injectors).

In a year or two...
Even going from the pre 17 to post 17 engines is not as simple as that.
The FA24 will never be a straight drop in swap. This is the same as people that figured they could just drop in the EJ engine and found it just wasn't going to happen. The one Niki mentioned earlier and one other were the only swaps I ever recall hearing about.

Besides if you are too old now you will be positively ancient by the time the 24 will come down in price to even make it a reasonably cost effective swap. Gotta wait for the kids to wreck a bunch first.
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Old 05-14-2021, 12:24 AM   #22
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While the engine itself has a low centre of gravity, it sits very high in the engine bay. If I remember correctly, the K24 swap actually lowers the COG because they can lower the entire engine.
I don't think you can have a lower COG with engines other than a boxer. It not only about how much low or high the engine sits in the bay. It is about the overall height of the engine and of not being top heavy. The main advantage of a K24 swap would be its higher power output and lower weight, so you would have also a bit better front to rear weight distribution with the expense of a bit worse COG. I believe K24 weights around 413 lbs. (including transmission), while FA20 is in the range of 480 lbs.
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Old 05-14-2021, 08:18 AM   #23
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I don't think you can have a lower COG with engines other than a boxer. It not only about how much low or high the engine sits in the bay. It is about the overall height of the engine and of not being top heavy. The main advantage of a K24 swap would be its higher power output and lower weight, so you would have also a bit better front to rear weight distribution with the expense of a bit worse COG. I believe K24 weights around 413 lbs. (including transmission), while FA20 is in the range of 480 lbs.
The benefits of a boxer engine giving a lower c.g. is usually somewhat overstated. They end up sitting quite high at the crank for exhaust clearance. This puts the engine's heavy bottom-end structure and crank, as well as the flywheel, clutch, and the front half of the transmission a good 2-3 inches higher vs. typical inline and V engines. I'd give the nod to a V-configuration for best low-c.g. potential, then flat, then upright inline, but I think there's not nearly as much in it as marketing suggests. Also, the flat FA20 in our cars sits *way* forward apparently for steering-shaft clearance, contributing to craptastic 55/45 weight distribution.

I would bet a low-mounted K-swap FT86 would have overall c.g. height close to stock (maybe 1/4" higher), while being ~100 lb. lighter (KPower's is 140 lb. lighter, supposedly "like vs. like") and with ~2-3% better F/R distribution.

I'd rather have ~2700 lb. Kswap with 52.5/47.5 weight distribution and (pessimistically) 18.5" c.g. height vs. 2800 lb. FA with 55/45 distribution and 18" c.g. height.

What would be interesting would be a low- and aft-mounted compact V4...

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Old 05-14-2021, 12:10 PM   #24
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The benefits of a boxer engine giving a lower c.g. is usually somewhat overstated. They end up sitting quite high at the crank for exhaust clearance. This puts the engine's heavy bottom-end structure and crank, as well as the flywheel, clutch, and the front half of the transmission a good 2-3 inches higher vs. typical inline and V engines. I'd give the nod to a V-configuration for best low-c.g. potential, then flat, then upright inline, but I think there's not nearly as much in it as marketing suggests. Also, the flat FA20 in our cars sits *way* forward apparently for steering-shaft clearance, contributing to craptastic 55/45 weight distribution.

I would bet a low-mounted K-swap FT86 would have overall c.g. height close to stock (maybe 1/4" higher), while being ~100 lb. lighter (KPower's is 140 lb. lighter, supposedly "like vs. like") and with ~2-3% better F/R distribution.

I'd rather have ~2700 lb. Kswap with 52.5/47.5 weight distribution and (pessimistically) 18.5" c.g. height vs. 2800 lb. FA with 55/45 distribution and 18" c.g. height.

What would be interesting would be a low- and aft-mounted compact V4...
Not sure how the lower c.g. of a boxer engine is overstated, if twins managed to have one of the lowest numbers of the segment. How come that typical inline and V engines don't have better figures? I wouldn't trust much statements of tuners like Kswap . These guys don't have the restrictions of a road based car, like being safe and not end up killing you in a front collision event. So, they can move transmission as far back as possible by simply ignoring crash zones and the like. I would never trust such engine swaps and the only way I would have one is if I had a race dedicated car that I could transport between race events using a trailer .
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Old 05-14-2021, 12:38 PM   #25
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The Honda K24 looks like a better option.
And the GM LS is an even better option.
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Old 05-14-2021, 12:39 PM   #26
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i'm sure someone in japan will have a swapped one within the year ^^
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Old 05-14-2021, 12:54 PM   #27
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Someone will wrap the new one around a pole, put it into a curb or otherwise cause it to be totaled.
Then someone will buy the car and pull the engine.

I give it less than a year.
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Old 05-14-2021, 12:54 PM   #28
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i'm sure someone in japan will have a swapped one within the year ^^
Most likely, and we'll probably have some people in the US swapping in an FA24 into their first-gens not long after.

However, you know what I'd actually like to see, no joke? The GR Yaris G16E-GTS three-cylinder. It's small as hell but already makes more power than the upcoming FA24 let alone the current FA20 in our cars.
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