Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Only that it's slower and heavier. Should change that to "not AS well". Also the P1 seems to employ throttle sharpening better with its system mapping it seems.

Sure, but by its very nature, it seems a little less racecar-focused, and a little more focused on being a very fast street car. Also, I haven't seen any reviews that complain about the throttle response on the 918 (which inherently shouldn't need it as much as the P1 does anyways, since its naturally aspirated and the P1 has turbo lag to deal with)

(I also still wonder about the "slower" part, since there still hasn't been a P1 'ring time, though there's certainly no question that the P1 is faster around a shortish track according to most reviewers so far. I question whether the 918 might actually be faster around a long track/full race though, due to the larger battery capacity and better ability to keep the batteries charged over time)

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Apparently McLaren felt regen brakes ruin brake feel in such a car and I'd have to agree as one who also has a hybrid, so that would not be ideal for the Supra but might be necessary if they wanted to keep up the SoC.

I agree that it can ruin brake feel, but Porsche claims to have solved that (and according to most of the reviewers, the brake feel is quite good on the Porsche). I wouldn't guess the brake feel of a 918 is at all similar to the feel in a Prius.

Originally Posted by Levi

The ultimate car that will crash Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche will be the LFA II, NA 5.3l V10 + Hybrid.

Given that the LFA II currently only exists in rumors, and the LFA is quite a long ways in performance from cars like the P1, LaFerrari, 918, etc (or even the non-hybrid hypercars like the Huayra), I would say that this is a bit of a premature claim...

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by chrisl

Sure, but by its very nature, it seems a little less racecar-focused, and a little more focused on being a very fast street car. Also, I haven't seen any reviews that complain about the throttle response on the 918 (which inherently shouldn't need it as much as the P1 does anyways, since its naturally aspirated and the P1 has turbo lag to deal with)

(I also still wonder about the "slower" part, since there still hasn't been a P1 'ring time, though there's certainly no question that the P1 is faster around a shortish track according to most reviewers so far. I question whether the 918 might actually be faster around a long track/full race though, due to the larger battery capacity and better ability to keep the batteries charged over time)


I agree that it can ruin brake feel, but Porsche claims to have solved that (and according to most of the reviewers, the brake feel is quite good on the Porsche). I wouldn't guess the brake feel of a 918 is at all similar to the feel in a Prius.
.

High revving NA motors still can benefit from an electric boost down low, not just turbos. Look at how all that low end torque helps diesel Le Mans cars power out of corners and up hills. That's one of the very reasons Porsche even put a hybrid in the 918 was to make up for some of that high strung NA nature of their V8. McLaren took it further and added boost into the mix.

Based on Porsche's electric steering that some feel is worse than the 86, I'm not going to hold my breath that they 'solved' anything for regenerative brake feel. Improved yes. Even the Prius has been improved over 3 generations for brake feel.

Like you say though, the two are a little different. I think saying the 918 is more designed for the street is a bit of a stretch though. If anything, the P1 probably has a more suitable and compliant street suspension with its hydraulic system that's been compared to a Rolls Royce quality ride on the MP4C.

This does get to the heart of the Supra question though, what is true nature of the car intended to be? Nurburgring hero, banchmark master and dyno queen, or fast GT that's affordable, livable with good mileage? Perhaps two variations on the same theme? I wonder if that's even been decided yet.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

High revving NA motors still can benefit from an electric boost down low, not just turbos. Look at how all that low end torque helps diesel Le Mans cars power out of corners and up hills. That's one of the very reasons Porsche even put a hybrid in the 918 was to make up for some of that high strung NA nature of their V8. McLaren took it further and added boost into the mix.

Fair enough, but I'm still curious why you think the 918 has any problems with throttle response (at any RPM). I certainly haven't heard that from the reviews.

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Based on Porsche's electric steering that some feel is worse than the 86, I'm not going to hold my breath that they 'solved' anything for regenerative brake feel. Improved yes. Even the Prius has been improved over 3 generations for brake feel.

Again going based on reviews, the electric steering in the 991 GT3 is apparently just about the best on the market today (unlike the electric steering in the base 911s or the Cayman/Boxster, disappointingly). As for braking feel in the 918? I do remember some reviewers complaining about weird feel in the pedal on the preproduction car, but I haven't seen reviews complaining about it in the production car. That having been said, I'd still leave this one up in the air for the moment - maybe they figured it out, maybe not...

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Like you say though, the two are a little different. I think saying the 918 is more designed for the street is a bit of a stretch though. If anything, the P1 probably has a more suitable and compliant street suspension with its hydraulic system that's been compared to a Rolls Royce quality ride on the MP4C.

Sure, but at the same time, the P1 interior looks substantially more stripped down and less comfortable to me (though part of that I will admit is personal preference).

Originally Posted by Boxer486

This does get to the heart of the Supra question though, what is true nature of the car intended to be? Nurburgring hero, banchmark master and dyno queen, or fast GT that's affordable, livable with good mileage? Perhaps two variations on the same theme? I wonder if that's even been decided yet.

That is definitely an interesting question - and I'm sure no matter what direction they end up taking with it, they'll end up making some fans unhappy.

[KAR]

no hybrid for the supra, drive up the cost

[Levi]

I see the Supra as the ultimate sportscar as the GT-R, fast but hard-core, and thus "affordable".

[STJ]

Originally Posted by Levi

I see the Supra as the ultimate sportscar as the GT-R, fast but hard-core, and thus "affordable".

The Supra was never a real sport car but a Gran Tourer, new one should be the same.

[KAR]

it does have a "backseat"

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by KAR

no hybrid for the supra, drive up the cost

Actually, the more expensive the car the less this matters because 3000 dollars of hybrid equipment added to a 15k car is a huge increase in price, but 3000 added to a 35k car is like a speaker upgrade. It's kind of funny because on expensive cars you get the best hp/dollar on some stupid mods like underdrive pulley (250 bucks for 8hp is a lot better than 1500 bucks for an exhaust), and that would be true for a hybrid system too. Porsche charges 11k for some cams and a tune for the 911 that gets you 30hp, you could modify the alternator into a motor using very good off the shelf stuff and replace the stock battery with a lithium pack for 2.5k total.

If you have an FRS and only spent 25k then a 2k upgrade for that much horsepower seems like a terrible deal though when you could toss on a turbo for not much more. There's a reason why they roll out hybrid systems in high end sports cars before economy cars

[KAR]

35k, no more like 80k.. They were not shy about that comment too.. This car is not gunning at the Z, more focused on the GTR.. So 80K +

[ProjectGT86]

Originally Posted by torqdork

I didn't know it got the green light or that there will be different powerplants. Any idea when it's going into production?

like rat said toyota announced in Detroit that most likely a 2017 release date

[OICU812]

Well if this indeed 80K+ it will Definetly make me consider the Cayman S.

See what next spring brings and what announcements if any...

[vh_supra26]

$80k sounds way too high. Alex Shen and Kevin has said the car will be affordable and not priced higher than the Lexus RC-F.

Also a SupraForum that attending the pre unveiling at New York was supposedly told the high end model will not have a higher starting price than the $70k Lexus RCF.

Nonetheless, the starting point for the FT-1 was a theoretical car with a real-world price tag between $50,000 and $60,000, said Kevin Hunter, president of the Calty Design Research studio in Newport Beach, Calif., where the car was designed.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2014...ure-sports-car

And a wild guess at price -- maybe $60,000? "It's a Toyota," says Shen. "It ought to be affordable." Only then did lines start to appear.

http://www.motortrend.com/future/con...pt_first_look/

Tada San has stated the new flagship coupe will not be chasing the GT-R.

Toyota Supra successor to remain rear-wheel drive

“The GT-R is a car that is clearly focussed on speed, on lap times. We don’t want to chase the same direction,” explained Tada-san.

“Toyota’s philosophy is always [one of] fun. Fun is more important to the driver, and I’d prefer the driver sense that enjoyment than [focus on] lap time.”

http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2013...el-drive-38128

Originally Posted by OICU812

Well if this indeed 80K+ it will Definetly make me consider the Cayman S.

See what next spring brings and what announcements if any...

I don't think they will be direct competitors. That car I believe only has 325hp.

X2, I'll just wait for an official announcement from Toyota. But the guessing game is fun

[Levi]

80K?

Looks high, but what if it is as fast as 911 GT3?

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by Dark

I was talking about release date because I thought the project started since FT-HS. It should be earlier than 2017 as stated by the article. I never say anything about the design. I started talking about the design when vh_supra brought up the LF-CC.

Sorry to back track, but this was just posted on Lexus Facebook.



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater