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Old 04-03-2020, 01:27 PM   #855
Capt Spaulding
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@grumpysnapper: I like your development model. If you have a few minutes, I'd be interested in your experience running the Harrop on the stock mechanicals. Specifically, I'm interested in the possibility of running something like that on a BRZ that serves as a light GT car. Engine longevity and drivability over multiple 4000 mile road trips and that sort of thing. No off pavement except for the occasional gravel parking lot. My first order of business is the suspension. I'd like to keep the stock ride height, or even add a couple of fractions to the wheel travel, and keep the basic character of the car. I'm waiting for 949 to birth the Xida coilover baby so I can give them a close look.

Not willing/able (at this point) to go with a built motor. That might torpedo the project, but it's worth a look/chat. And, hell, I'm not laying awake at night now pining for more ponies.
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Old 04-04-2020, 10:34 AM   #856
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Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding View Post
@grumpysnapper: I like your development model. If you have a few minutes, I'd be interested in your experience running the Harrop on the stock mechanicals. Specifically, I'm interested in the possibility of running something like that on a BRZ that serves as a light GT car. Engine longevity and drivability over multiple 4000 mile road trips and that sort of thing. No off pavement except for the occasional gravel parking lot. My first order of business is the suspension. I'd like to keep the stock ride height, or even add a couple of fractions to the wheel travel, and keep the basic character of the car. I'm waiting for 949 to birth the Xida coilover baby so I can give them a close look.

Not willing/able (at this point) to go with a built motor. That might torpedo the project, but it's worth a look/chat. And, hell, I'm not laying awake at night now pining for more ponies.
Hi mate, happy to give you my perspective.

One of the big benefits of the Harrop is that it works really well for a variety of different potential uses.
It looks OE, is supplied very complete, has been very well sorted.
Tuning is not difficult, and the car will run very reliably.
You are not chasing dyno numbers, so that puts you in a really good position.

Because the power delivery is fairly linear in comparison to many turbos, lots of the drive line stresses seem to be lessened slightly.
Bolting one onto a standard engine on its standard large 95mm pulley (and even perhaps down to 85mm) should not be problematic.

The extra power will make you very very happy.

A new header is important, and the recommended ACE header is very good...but not cheap. The rest of the exhaust is sort of optional, but most of the aftermarket options seem to sound....horrible...and loud.
Turbos obviously have a slight damping effect on exhaust noise...a supercharger seems to do the reverse.
When/if the time comes get a custom build in (lightweight) stainless, it will last better and sound better than titanium (ask me how I know...)...and will still be lighter than the OE system.
A freer flowing cat would be good.

The standard cooling system can cope very well, but the addition of an oil cooler is not a bad idea.

There should be no real issues with the rest of the drive train either, but if your clutch has done a fair few miles, then installing a slightly heavier duty version could be something to think about.

I spent 3 very happy years on the 85mm pulley with zero issues on an internally standard engine. When it was pulled out and inspected then rebuilt for the new bottom end, the builder said it effectively looked new.

Having said that, I am anal about oil...so it gets changed along with the filter every 5000km. And I only use a high quality oil (Mobil 1).

Standard brakes are fine for your usage, just a set of good pads and good fluid...until you work out if you need/want 'more'.

Which brings me to wheels/tyres. Put simply one of the very best decisions I made early was to ensure a decent tyre with a decent sidewall...for hard road use (or even soft) a working sidewall is magic. It solves so many problems...by not creating them...
I went for 16" forged alloy, and was so happy I ended up getting 2 sets.
The only issue with 16's is brake clearances later if you do decide to change set ups.
Luckily you are happy with standard road height (or slightly more), the car does have limited travel, so road height is crucial.

One thing I do highly recommend is lowering the final drive, I went for a 4.66, but anything around there would be good.
I felt the 86/BRZ is too highly geared...even with a (low psi) supercharger.

Weight is also an important factor for me, the supercharger adds around 28kg (I think), the oil cooler another 4kg if you add one... etc
I made a pact with myself to remove the same amount of weight that I added to the car...and hopefully more.
It's worth the effort, and relatively easy. Sort of. A rear seat delete, a light weight battery and a slightly modified exhaust would get you most of the way.

My road trips are usually about 5000km each of backroads tarmac and dirt...in all types of weather. Reliability has been %100 over 30000km.

Hope this helps, but let me know if there is something else.

Lyndon

PS. The single greatest compromise that I made with my car is using an alloy prop shaft.... you save weight, but the noise transmission is ridiculous...and probably not really worth it!
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Old 04-04-2020, 01:07 PM   #857
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@GRumpsnapper. Many thanks amigo.
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Old 04-04-2020, 02:02 PM   #858
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@Capt Spaulding
Wheels/tires is a must if FI but no real benefit to 16” unless maybe for off-road use. Otherwise no performance increase and limit your brake selection, most stick to 17” or even go 18” for this reason. 17x9 with a sticky 245 tire is a good option, also depends on power levels you may need more.

Turbos are inherently less stressful to engines for numerous reasons. Power for power they have less load, no parasitic draw while cruising, can be setup to be linear in power etc.. although that doesn’t mean a roots or twin screw SC can’t be reliable but they do make power relatively quickly compared to centri SC and big turbos. Small turbos can build boost quick though.

FD ratio is a ton of pros and cons and reasons to choose one over the other. I can elaborate much more if you want. But typically once FI it is not a good idea to go beyond 4.3FD, many choose to go 3.9 or even 3.7 for various reasons. MT has fairly close gear ratio as is you have 5 useable gear with only 1 OD gear. 5th is 1-1 and tops out with 4.1FD and stock tire at about 130mph. 4.66 is 14% more aggressive. Every gear will be 14% shorter, 5th will redline at 112mph. When you are FI that will feel way too short. I had a 4.56 and even that was too aggressive and short.. Also aggressive FD makes grip issues even worse. Most simple way of deciding is to decide what you want your top “acceleration” speed to be and choose an FD to make 5th for MT 4th for AT hit that speed at the top of
That gear.

SC will add weight to the front. Taking off weight from the rear will unbalance the weight distribution even more. Battery, small windshield washer reservoir, lightweight BBK, most aftermarket headers are lighter, lightweight seats, lightweight bumper crash bar, lightweight accessory/idler pulleys. Are ways to get weight off the front. Im not saying not to take the weight off the rear but if possible try to keep the car as balanced as possible when removing the weight.

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Old 04-04-2020, 04:47 PM   #859
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@86TOYO2k17 Thanks for the suggestions. As for the wheels, for a time I considered going the 16" higher profile tire route but decided to stick with 17 x 8s with moderately sticky (Conti Ext Cont Sport) 225/45 tires.

My real interest now is on the suspension. I'm not interested in running the car to track limits, either on a track on on the road. So lowering it is not on my agenda. I'd like to keep the stock ride height and increase the precision of the wheel control without sacrificing comfort. The car is not bad at all now, but in some bumpy corners it will crow hop.

Power is down a bit on my to do list. I was interested in g'snapper's experience because I think his vision for his car is as close to mine as I've seen. FI is a possibility, but not hugely probable. Same for lowering the FD ratio. I live on the TX/Mex border and it's a long way to anywhere. Most of the speed limits in between are "generous." On top of that the median speed on highways posted at 75 mph is usually closer to 85. Probably not going to spin the engine any tighter than I do now.

Weight is similar. I've considered a rear seat delete, but if I did so, I'd pull all the carpeting and line the rear half of the car with sound deadening. One hand removes, the other adds. Thanks again.
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Old 04-04-2020, 07:53 PM   #860
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Hi guys, My car is a 2016 GT86 AT...
10K miles only... at last after more than 6 years 2 Cars (1st one was crashed and I sold it) of hesitation I decided to go boosted...


A- I'm now a proud Harrop owner (Not Yet Installed) still in that nice red box!
I got it with Harrops 91 Octane CARB legal ECUTECK tune (There is no higher Octane fuel where I live).

B- I bought several supporting mods (not yet installed):
1- JacksonRacing dual Radiator and Engine oil cooler.
2- Koyo aluminum radiator filler neck + high pressure radiator cap.
3- Mishimoto racing thermostat.
4- Radium Oil Catch Can.
5- P3 Guage. (The AC vent OEM looking one) .
6- FactionFab Titanium twin Muffler Catback.

7- Stark Performance AT cooler with Thermostat (unfortunately they didn't make the delivery and the good guys at FTSpeed refunded me)

I need your help in the following numbered points (I'd greatly appreciate similarly numbered answers):

1- Is there a risk of installing the above parts on a stock engine? Given the poor fuel octane rating?
2- any parts that I'm missing here? To ensure top reliability and maintaining daily drivablity (not sure if this is an English word )?
3- I still want to buy an AT cooler that is thermostat regulated, I'd appreciate any help to direct me where to get one?
4- Any of the verified owners have it installed on an AT car?
5- Finally it wouldn't be a good thread if won't ask about expected gains in power and torque .

Many thanks in advance for your help and detailed responses.



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Old 04-05-2020, 01:57 AM   #861
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There is no CARB tune. They have an Aussie emissions tune.

1. Not with the stock pulley.
2. No.
3. I don’t know.
4. Manual here.
5. Quoted power on their website is available. They even posted a dyno:

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Old 04-05-2020, 05:21 PM   #862
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Question

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Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
There is no CARB tune. They have an Aussie emissions tune.

1. Not with the stock pulley.
2. No.
3. I don’t know.
4. Manual here.
5. Quoted power on their website is available. They even posted a dyno:

first of all thank you for your reply

I studied all the content on the their website regarding this kit.
One thing i need to re-emphasize as that i'm stuck with 95RON = 91AKI (US) fuel ONLY!

this graph and all their numbers are generated using 98RON = 93AKI (US) octane fuel.
add on top of it the very hot weather most of the year



Hence, I have concerns regarding both reliability + power gains.



If you know anyone here using their setup with 91Octane fuel their input would be very useful.

Best Regards,
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Old 04-05-2020, 07:10 PM   #863
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first of all thank you for your reply

I studied all the content on the their website regarding this kit.
One thing i need to re-emphasize as that i'm stuck with 95RON = 91AKI (US) fuel ONLY!

this graph and all their numbers are generated using 98RON = 93AKI (US) octane fuel.
add on top of it the very hot weather most of the year

Hence, I have concerns regarding both reliability + power gains.
If you know anyone here using their setup with 91Octane fuel their input would be very useful.

Best Regards,
I use 91 or e85 or a mix. 93 octane is limited in many areas of the US.

It is likely that their Aussie emissions tune is conservative, meaning that the timing isn't advanced in an aggressive way, nor are the cams setup aggressive, so it easily passes emissions. With that said, the tune is probably done on 93, so they could maximize the power for advertising and so the car is capable of taking advantage of 93 octane when it is needed.

What do I mean?

I am not a tuner, but I'm pretty sure most tuners create a tune that is smooth and balanced and then they slowly advance timing and other perimeters until they start seeing knock then they back off timing to a safe spot. That timing position is then the max. The tune will retard timing when necessary, which will likely reduce power. Add 87 octane on a cool night while cruising and doing a few pulls, and there may be no need to retard timing. Go on a hard canyon run on a hot day with 93, and the tune may retard timing.

By tuning on 93 vs 91, the tune can advance the timing higher if the conditions allow. This might seem dangerous like the tune will go beyond what your engine can tolerate on 91, but it isn't. The computer can retard timing very fast, and it does this dynamically. Plus, you have supporting mods.

Here is a dyno of 87 vs 93 on a 400+hp Mustang. You could probably expect 2-3hp difference between 91 and 93 on your car.

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Old 04-06-2020, 08:05 AM   #864
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I studied all the content on the their website regarding this kit.
One thing i need to re-emphasize as that i'm stuck with 95RON = 91AKI (US) fuel ONLY!
this graph and all their numbers are generated using 98RON = 93AKI (US) octane fuel.
add on top of it the very hot weather most of the year
Hence, I have concerns regarding both reliability + power gains.
You might feel a little bit better knowing that Australian fuel is generally considered not to be of a world class standard in terms of its RON rating.
There is a view that 98 here is closer to 95/93 in the USA.

I really don't think you will have any issues on the standard pulley, on a 'standard' engine.

Lyndon
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Old 04-06-2020, 08:43 AM   #865
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@86TOYO2k17 Thanks for the suggestions. As for the wheels, for a time I considered going the 16" higher profile tire route but decided to stick with 17 x 8s with moderately sticky (Conti Ext Cont Sport) 225/45 tires.
Sounds good mate, I never want 'too much' mechanical grip on a car either.
By that I mean having to drive ridiculously hard in order to find the cars' grip limits...its simply not fun or safe, on a public road. (I'm not in a position to make any judgements about track work)

I tend to value a car that is playful at 8/10th's rather than suicidal at 10/10th's.... and is potentially 'catchable' if you are possibly caught out at 10/10th's...
I also happen to think that ultimately, in the real world, its actually a quicker way of getting from 'point A to point B'
My view is that a reasonable sidewall can help a car be fun by having a more progressive transition... sort of letting you know what its thinking of doing next.

Even with nannies off constantly (except ABS) on 16"x 7"s with 225/55 Pirelli P1's and P7's, with its new engine and higher boost, the car is very drivable in the dry. In the wet you do need to concentrate!

Cheers, Lyndon
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Old 04-06-2020, 10:38 AM   #866
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@86TOYO2k17 Thanks for the suggestions. As for the wheels, for a time I considered going the 16" higher profile tire route but decided to stick with 17 x 8s with moderately sticky (Conti Ext Cont Sport) 225/45 tires.

My real interest now is on the suspension. I'm not interested in running the car to track limits, either on a track on on the road. So lowering it is not on my agenda. I'd like to keep the stock ride height and increase the precision of the wheel control without sacrificing comfort. The car is not bad at all now, but in some bumpy corners it will crow hop.

Power is down a bit on my to do list. I was interested in g'snapper's experience because I think his vision for his car is as close to mine as I've seen. FI is a possibility, but not hugely probable. Same for lowering the FD ratio. I live on the TX/Mex border and it's a long way to anywhere. Most of the speed limits in between are "generous." On top of that the median speed on highways posted at 75 mph is usually closer to 85. Probably not going to spin the engine any tighter than I do now.

Weight is similar. I've considered a rear seat delete, but if I did so, I'd pull all the carpeting and line the rear half of the car with sound deadening. One hand removes, the other adds. Thanks again.
Ok, I assumed by your inquiry that you where already at a point where you where highly considering going FI. Also keep in mind whatever FD you go with if you do, the numerical % increase will be the same % increase to RPM at any given speed. IE 4.1 to 4.56 is about 11% increase so your RPM will be 11% higher in the same gear for any given speed. that puts your RPM very high cruising at 85MPH. Stock MT/FD should be 3650rpm at 85mph, 4.56FD would be 4050rpm.

I initially went all out NA just about every possible mod, i had 17x8 225s and grip was perfect and phenomenal. but once going FI that was no longer the case, i upgrade the rears to 17x9 with 255s front is still 17x8 225s. and now i have grip again. but had to buy 2 new wheels and 4 new tires (bcs mine before where directional and i am not doing staggered+directional) when my wheels and tires before had only 5k miles kind of a wasted money not planning out beforehand but i had to make the switch.

I am using RCE yellow springs, it is only .8" drop but the ride quality, performance, responsiveness etc is phenomenal now, and ground clearance is still plenty even with front lip, side skirts, rear diffuser "lowering" my car another inch or so. Very good daily / GT option, never scrape speed bumps or anything.

I did a rear seat delete, i made my own kit, a lot of DIYs on here its pretty easy, If i remember correctly removing everything was 33lbs and then my kit put 8lbs back in so -25lbs and actually provides more sound deadening now compared to before, so win win. overall weight loss is usually advantageous regardless of where. But just something to consider and attempt to do when possible is taking off the same amount of weight in the front as rear if/when possible. Like rear seat delete + Light weight battery, lighter catback + lighter header. light weight front seats and or lightweight BBK + removing trunk junk etc.. the car is already front heavy and you do not want to make it much worse, especially on a RWD car.
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Old 04-06-2020, 11:33 AM   #867
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@86TOYO2k17: Good points. Many thanks for the suggestions! Now that I'm having enforced garage face time with my car, I'll take a look at the DIY seat delete/sound insulation info.
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Old 06-09-2020, 08:38 PM   #868
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Hi Guys... I'm officially a member of Harrop TVS1320 SC club... You can add me to the original post of verified owners if you wish.


As mentioned before my build consist of:


1- Harrop TVS1320 SC + ECUTECK tune
2- JacksonRacing dual Radiator and Engine oil cooler.
3- Koyo aluminum radiator filler neck + high pressure radiator cap.
4- Mishimoto racing thermostat.
5- Radium Oil Catch Can.
6- P3 Guage. (The AC vent OEM looking one) .
7- FactionFab Titanium twin Muffler Catback.


I'll be posting photos later.
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