What does a catch can do and is it nessesary for super charged cars?

[Irace86]

Originally Posted by Xxyion

How much power was he making on the Vortech? Its interesting you say there was metal in the oil which caused the engine to seize. Now i'm not a mechanic in any sense of the word but that doesnt sound like something that could be caused specifically by the supercharger. As someone said earlier it can happen on NA as well. Something like that sounds like there was already an internal issue with the engine which got exacerbated with the kit on it but wasnt caused by the kit.

Not trying to call you out or anything but i just went FI as well and anytime someone has an issue with their car i want to see exactly what caused it so i can look out for signs haha.

Pretty sure she said Kraftworks. Does Kraftworks come with a tune? I see a ECUTEK but does it come with a tune? You may be guessing where I am going with the questions.

[Xxyion]

Originally Posted by Irace86

Pretty sure she said Kraftworks. Does Kraftworks come with a tune? I see a ECUTEK but does it come with a tune? You may be guessing where I am going with the questions.

sorry Kraftwerks

[Helios]

Originally Posted by Xxyion

How much power was he making on the Vortech? Its interesting you say there was metal in the oil which caused the engine to seize. Now i'm not a mechanic in any sense of the word but that doesnt sound like something that could be caused specifically by the supercharger. As someone said earlier it can happen on NA as well. Something like that sounds like there was already an internal issue with the engine which got exacerbated with the kit on it but wasnt caused by the kit.

Not trying to call you out or anything but i just went FI as well and anytime someone has an issue with their car i want to see exactly what caused it so i can look out for signs haha.

Yeah, Kraftwerks. But the data doesn't support her claim. There are literally thousands upon thousands of Rotrex SC units in use with no failures. I'm not saying it isn't possible only that it is highly improbable as long as it was maintained properly. Sounds like the engine failed, but the Rotrex didn't cause it.

[Sosa]

TL;DR
Catch cans are great preventive measures, dual cans for FI, single for NA.

A catch can prevents oil from entering the intake.

You have compressed air & fuel in the cylinder, spark ignites it, expanding gas moves the piston.

Sometimes the pressure pushes past the piston and enters the crankcase (which is full of oil). There is a positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve to release pressure, which is routed by a house back into the intake. This results in oil collecting in the intake manifold, valves, etc.

A catch can is placed between the PCV valve and intake, allowing the oil to condense and collect in the can (if it's a baffled catch can).

This will help keep components free of "gunk". Keep in mind the Twins D4S (direct/port fuel injection) will help clean the valves: port injection = fuel on valves, and fuel is an excellent solvent.

*I'm no expert on the matter, just sharing the knowledge I acquired through research here and online.

[guybo]

In regular GDI cars this can really extend engine life (in theory anyway) by preventing oil/gunk/carbon from collecting on the backside of the intake valves. In our car, the intake valves aren't dry so it's less of a concern. But that oil and gunk does get mixed with the air/fuel mixture and can effectively reduce the fuel octane (at least during those times when there's blow by).

It's an easy mod. If done right there's no down side and can only help but does require some upkeep

[Bfranklyn86]

Originally Posted by VeganGirl

Long story short my boyfriends car blew up with a kraftwerks running perfect for 2 years and one day just didn't turn on.

Now I want to do any preventative things to keep this from happening to me and my edelbrock kit.

Are catch cans good at preventing this? And what about an oil cooler? Any tips to prevent my engine from exploding would be nice,
Thanks

A couple of people have now asked you what kind of power your boyfriend was running - just helpful to know what power levels these engines are blowing at - the more data the better etc.....

Unless I've missed a reply (in which case sorry), it is annoying how you will happily go to the community for help, but are unwilling to give something back.

[jasonojordan]

A question I would of been asking is what color is the metal material they found in the motor? This will lead you to what failed and when you know what failed then you can start asking the questions as to why.

As others have stated there are plenty of people out there running various breads of superchargers. The fact of the mater is your run FI you need to do more maintenance to maintain reliability, I don't care how good your setup is. You neglect maintenance your gunna have a bad time.

Good luck with the new motor!

[VeganGirl]

Honestly we are not sure of all the details. All I know is we took it to 1 shop, they said there was metal in the oIl and short block failed, they want to build the engine for 5-8k. His car was 2 years old but toyota refused warranty because forced induction could be the cause of failure. We purchased an engine and had it replaced. Now he's selling the kraftwerks kit with black intercooler, oil cooler, and skunk2 headers. 2200+shipping.

I wish we had more answers but honestly all I know is that his car just cost us 5k for a new engine and replacement. If I was mechanically inclined maybe I could answer more questions.

As for how much power, less than 300hp on that kit, he never pushed the car, never tracked, car has rbv2 kit and just sits and looks pretty. Never a broken belt on the kraftwerks or anything, one day car just wouldn't start and came back with camshaft timing code and bam we needed a new engine out of no where.

[504]

As others mentioned, I'd be highly suspect of the tune just basing off the notorious complexity of these engines to tune, the relatively modest power you been running and the supposed granny driving style.

Nothing is absolute when it comes to failures unfortunately but here in Sydney, we have somewhere along the lines of 30 plus dyno tuners in such a small city and we almost never hear of failures. One tuner in Sydney has been tracking a 430whp 86 completely stock block for the past year with no issues as yet

Again, tune could be fine; has a check valve been placed in the pcv line to stop the car from pressurising the crank case?

[GsxrMe]

Whenever you push the factory engine past its limits, this is the chance you take.

A solid custom tune vs base map is safer but no details on your setup. If you had a base map, bad fuel, woke up on the wrong side of the bed can cause this.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by GsxrMe

Whenever you push the factory engine past its limits, this is the chance you take.

A solid custom tune vs base map is safer but no details on your setup. If you had a base map, bad fuel, woke up on the wrong side of the bed can cause this.

Right on - I think this is a point that many people miss. Running a well tuned FI system on our motors at say 8-9 psi, less than 300 rwhp, is deemed as 'reliable' by many. Some are also running well over that with no problems. BUT you just have to keep in mind that you're still rolling the dice no matter what - our motors can handle quite a lot if the kit is installed correctly, correct supporting mods, solid tuning etc... but you're still pushing the system beyond design limits. Any probabilities of failure due to manufacturing defects will be amplified - where an 'inferior' component may still live with factory power specs, will deteriorate/fail at an accelerated rate under high stress/temperatures. Other external factors, like 'bad gas', can also contribute to these issues. We all have a tendancy to try to point fingers at one 'instant culprit', but often failures can be caused by accelerated stress on weak components that end up failing over a period of time. Once they fail you're toast. Your neighbor with the same kit may just be lucky and have a better built/stronger motor from the factory and have no problems running well over 300rwhp. It's the nature of tuning - I'm always sorry to hear about these failures though, it's no fun

[SooNomi]

VeganGirl,

I just remembered that in early January, you started a thread about the CEL that came up on your boyfriend's Kraftwerks FR-S (http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114312)

Originally Posted by VeganGirl

Hi guys, unfortunately the super charged kraftwerks c30 had an issue the other day. This car never had any issues in over 2 years running kraftwerks c30 and conservative tune.

So anyway we were driving like 25mph and the traction control light and chrcknengine light came on and the car lost "boost". Immediately I thought my boyfriends good luck daily driving a kraftwerks has run out. So we went probably about 5 miles home and checked the belt, perfect condition. The car turns off and on perfect ? The only thing I suggested was the car needed an oil change as it had went with out one for 8 months. My boyfriend took it to get an oil change and the check engine light and no boost problem are still there.

Any suggestions as to what broke?

As you mentioned that it needed an oil change, I suspect that the P011 code was a result of a lubrication issue as mentioned in Jay Safford's webpage. This could have ultimately led to the failure of the engine.


Reference: https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...by-jay-safford

P0011 code definition

Camshaft Position “A” - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance (Bank 1)

What the P0011 code means

P0011 is the OBD-II generic code indicating the engine control module (ECM) has determined that the bank 1 intake camshaft is more advanced than what the ECM has commanded it be. This over-advanced condition could be during advancing or retarding of the camshaft timing.

What causes the P0011 code?

• The camshaft and crankshaft sensors have indicated the camshaft is more advanced than the ECM has commanded it to advance.
  
• The camshaft is too advanced when the ECM has commanded the camshaft to retard to a lower timing level.
  
• The oil control solenoid to the bank 1 camshaft may be stuck or have clogged passages.
  
• The oil is too thick causing the passages to become clogged due to lack of oil flow to and from the camshaft phasers.
  
• The camshaft phasers are stuck in the advanced position.

What are the symptoms of the P0011 code?

• The ECM will turn on the Check Engine Light and command the camshaft to go to its normal starting position if possible.
  
• The engine may have a hard start condition if the cam is stuck in a too far advanced or retarded timing position.
  
• The engine will have a reduction in fuel mileage due to the camshafts not being in their optimal positions to get the best fuel mileage.
  
• The engine may run rough, hesitate, or stall depending on camshaft positions.
  
• The engine emissions may exceed federal levels and fail an emissions test.

Note: The symptoms may change depending on the camshaft timing positions when the camshaft stopped advancing or retarding.

How does a mechanic diagnose the P0011 code?

• A visual inspection to determine any electrical connector, wiring, or valve issues of the camshaft oil control valve for the bank 1 intake camshaft.
  
• Check the engine for it to be full of clean engine oil with the correct viscosity.
  
• The technician will scan and document the codes received and view the freeze frame data to see when the code was set.
  
• The codes should then be reset to clear the OBD-II fault codes and retest the vehicle to see if the P0011 code comes back.
  
• If the code returns, then the next step for the technician to do is perform a manufacturer's specific pinpoint test for the P0011 code and repair as needed.

Note: Follow the manufacturer's recommended pinpoint test to narrow down the problem since each engine may be tested differently and possible engine internal damage may be done if tests are not performed in accordance with a correct procedure.


Common mistakes when diagnosing the P0011 code?

Follow these simple guidelines to prevent mistakes:

• Always do a visual inspection for common problems like checking to see if all electrical connectors are connected.
  
• Check engine oil to see if it is full, clean, and of the correct viscosity.
  
• Check, document and clear failure codes. Test to verify the code coming back before any further tests are done.
  
• The manufacturer pinpoint test procedures should be followed step-by-step without skipping any steps to prevent a misdiagnosis and replacing of good components.
  
• Do not replace any sensors or components unless tests indicate a problem.
  
• How serious is the P0011 code?
  
• The engine may run erratic and stall, hesitate, run rough, or have a hard starting condition.
  
• The engine may have excessive fuel consumption, carbon fouling of engine components, and various drive complaints depending on the camshaft failed position.
  
• Driving the vehicle for prolonged time with the camshafts not advancing or retarding may cause other problems to the valve train or engine depending on the cause of the failure.

What repairs can fix the P0011 code?

• Resetting the fault codes and performing a road test
• Changing the oil and filter to the proper oil viscosity for the engine specifications
• Repairing or replacing the wiring to the camshaft oil control valve for bank 1 intake camshaft
• Replacing the camshaft oil control valve for bank 1 intake camshaft
• Checking the timing chain alignment for jumped timing problems
• Additional comments for consideration regarding the P0011 code

The engine oil passages through the camshafts and oil control valves are a specific size and only the manufacturer's recommended oil viscosity should be used. If too thick or thin oil is used, the camshaft timing phasers may not change the camshaft timing advance as the manufacturer’s designed them to and may cause premature failure of camshaft and related engine components from lack of proper lubrication.

[86 South Africa]

Originally Posted by VeganGirl

Honestly we are not sure of all the details. All I know is we took it to 1 shop, they said there was metal in the oIl and short block failed, they want to build the engine for 5-8k. His car was 2 years old but toyota refused warranty because forced induction could be the cause of failure. We purchased an engine and had it replaced. Now he's selling the kraftwerks kit with black intercooler, oil cooler, and skunk2 headers. 2200+shipping.

I wish we had more answers but honestly all I know is that his car just cost us 5k for a new engine and replacement. If I was mechanically inclined maybe I could answer more questions.

As for how much power, less than 300hp on that kit, he never pushed the car, never tracked, car has rbv2 kit and just sits and looks pretty. Never a broken belt on the kraftwerks or anything, one day car just wouldn't start and came back with camshaft timing code and bam we needed a new engine out of no where.

Just a side note... but you blamed the SC kit for the engine failure, and a post or 2 later you're happy to sell it to some other sucker.
#justsaying

[GsxrMe]

Yep, were all past blaming the kits for blowing engines that already have toilet paper rods. Im at 400whp on e85 and im reallly.... playing with fire/wallet. But thats a different story.

The real topic that we need to start for VeganGirl is... how can we help you out and get the car up and running again, better, faster and stronger! That wont push any buttons and would be beneficial to all parties.

Damn @Kris86 already got my bank account smaller due to his engine build. Kind of got my own thing about to start that will give me a HUGE peace of mind very soon.

Ill have some spare rods and pistons that are good soon.