ACT Clutch Lockout SOLVED

[stillslow93]

Hey ya'll


I know me and a few other guys on here were having the hardest time with ACT clutch lockout at a stop and maybe a year ago there were a few threads of people trying to come up with a solution.


My local shop installed mine w/ flywheel and after about 1000 miles I started having terrible lockout AND lock-in (I don't know if thats a thing but when parked a few times I couldn't pull the shifter out of 1st and the car would actually idle forward with the clutch pedal all the way down)


anyways, the clutch came back out (at the same shop) and was sent in for warranty. ACT guaranteed me everything was fine and the shop put it back in. well another 500 miles later and the same problems came up. it was basically a nightmare to drive the car and I would have to sit at red lights with my foot on the clutch and the car in gear because if I was in neutral it was basically a 50/50 shot that the car would actually go into gear when the light turned green and just generally terrible.


After talking to the shop and getting no where and researching on the forums I had many people swear it was ACT problems, while more experienced guys (shouts out CSG) told me it was likely poor install.


Last labor day I bit the bullet and on jackstands in my garage I yanked out the tranny and did a full uninstall/reinstall. I used the OS Giken alignment tool ($90) and made sure I took my time greasing everything, torquing all to spec, and just giving it the proper attention. Up until that point I had only done engine work and never dropped a transmission out of a car before but felt like I could handle it.


I don't know WHAT that original shop did or what caused other guys on here to have issues, but we are 6 months removed and the car has another 2k miles. I am happy to report the clutch is behaving exactly as advertised and I have absolutely no problems with lockout or grinding. I am frustrated knowing that any damage caused to my gearbox from the improper installation was entirely avoidable but at this time last year I was contemplating buying a whole new clutch setup and just moving on with my life. The ACT clutch is handling the power beautifully (Full JDL Turbo setup with all the bells and whistles)


If you are having problems with lockout and other issues I would recommend the following


1) OS Giken alignment tool
2) Grab a friend and a six pack
3) Re-install the clutch and pay extra mind to the details


Good luck!

[pope]

I hate to rain on your parade, but you haven’t offered a solution to solving peoples ACT clutch troubles. What have have provided is equivalent of “turn it off and back on again” with a lot of labor.

It seems like your solution hinges on using the expensive alignment tool, but all the alignment tool does is help install the transmission. The first (and every) time the clutch is actuated after the transmission is installed the disc self centers on the input shaft.

Unfortunately, I’d say you got lucky. Maybe you cleaned and greased better letting things move with just enough less friction. Or, maybe the disc happened to finally burn down just enough to give clearance to stop dragging. Or, maybe you positioned the hydraulic actuator a hair tighter providing just enough additional throw to release better. Or, maybe some lucky combination of all of these and countless other variables resulted in a positive result. Unfortunately, we don’t have a clear answer.

I am happy that you had a positive resolution of your clutch issue, but the truest solution to the ACT clutch “problem” in these cars is still replace the ACT clutch with a known good brand.

[Irace86.2.0]

Just adjust the clutch pedal height. Unless the manufacture specifically designed the aftermarket clutch to be identical to the OEM clutch, any variation in clutch assembly thickness can cause a change in clutch engagement. How far from the wall is the clutch engagement/grab point? A new clutch will engage closer to the wall than an old clutch, so often the pedal will get adjusted back with a new clutch.

I'm not sure how these pressure plates have lockout issues. The pedal pushes the TOB to push against the pressure plate spring fingers, which pivot against the inside of the pressure plate and lifts pressure off the clutch. Is something stretching, warping, breaking, etc? I would like to see one of these pressure plates disassembled to see where the point of failure is. If the pressure plate spring was warping/bending as it was pushed in then it wouldn't lift the clutch enough; this could work at the TOB end or the clutch end, depending on the fulcrum point, and the pressure on the clutch could feel soft or hard to push in, yet be weak/bending.

https://motoiq.com/industry-insider-...-act-clutches/

[soundman98]

And if the os giken alignment tool solves the problem, what makes it fundamentally different from the tool included with the clutch?

[Sapphireho]

If it was poor install, it would make sense you would see the same rate of poor install with all clutches. Not the case.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by soundman98

And if the os giken alignment tool solves the problem, what makes it fundamentally different from the tool included with the clutch?

The tool with the clutch is just a cheap plastic job that does the deed on most other clutches. For some reason the ACT is more sensitive to this. I have been using the same clutch tool that came with my OEM Exedy on 3, 4 transmission instals with no problem.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by pope

I hate to rain on your parade, but you haven’t offered a solution to solving peoples ACT clutch troubles. What have have provided is equivalent of “turn it off and back on again” with a lot of labor.

It seems like your solution hinges on using the expensive alignment tool, but all the alignment tool does is help install the transmission. The first (and every) time the clutch is actuated after the transmission is installed the disc self centers on the input shaft.

Unfortunately, I’d say you got lucky. Maybe you cleaned and greased better letting things move with just enough less friction. Or, maybe the disc happened to finally burn down just enough to give clearance to stop dragging. Or, maybe you positioned the hydraulic actuator a hair tighter providing just enough additional throw to release better. Or, maybe some lucky combination of all of these and countless other variables resulted in a positive result. Unfortunately, we don’t have a clear answer.

I am happy that you had a positive resolution of your clutch issue, but the truest solution to the ACT clutch “problem” in these cars is still replace the ACT clutch with a known good brand.

The plastic tool provided with the ACT clutches is quite poor.

Use the hardened steel OS Giken tool (easiest for DIYers), or something similarly rigid that will hold the clutch without sagging.

If you're a bit more hardcore, you can also slice off the input shaft from a dead WRX or BRZ/86 transmission and use that as the alignment tool.


Virtually all clutch/shifting issues I've seen on this platform ultimately come down to a bad install due to a poor tool used.

[pope]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Virtually all clutch/shifting issues I've seen on this platform ultimately come down to a bad install due to a poor tool used.

I'll readily admit I have only done one FT-86 clutch and it wasn't an ACT clutch, so I'll defer to your experience, but can you explain how the alignment tool causes shifting issues?

In 24 years of working on cars, I have never seen a clutch/input shaft arrangement that matters what alignment tool was used, assuming basic care was taken and the transmission wasn't forced into place mushrooming or galling the splines.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by pope

I'll readily admit I have only done one FT-86 clutch and it wasn't an ACT clutch, so I'll defer to your experience, but can you explain how the alignment tool causes shifting issues?

In 24 years of working on cars, I have never seen a clutch/input shaft arrangement that matters what alignment tool was used, assuming basic care was taken and the transmission wasn't forced into place mushrooming or galling the splines.

For whatever reason, the FA20 seems to be hypersensitive to the clutch being even slightly canted. A stiffer tool always fixes the problem.

While correlation is not causation, in this case based on 10 years of sampling, I can confidently say that we have a known fix, which is a stiff, well fitting guide.

[Irace86.2.0]

The clutch self-aligns with pressing in the pedal. The transmission input shaft goes into the clutch before going into the pilot bearing, so if the clutch plate is misaligned then it is unlikely the input shaft will go into the pilot bearing and bolt up. Again, even if there was a minuscule offset, pressing the pedal will self-align the disc.

The only way this is a problem is if the clutch is binding so hard on the input shaft that wasn’t lubricated and was scored that the shaft is forcing the clutch plate into the flywheel constantly—unlikely.

The only way someone could be locked out of first and reverse is if the clutch is still engaged with the flywheel such that the input shaft is still spinning. How could this happen?

1. The clutch disk is so thick that no amount of pressure can move the fingers of the pressure plate enough to lift the contact surface off the clutch disk, regardless of clutch pedal adjustment.
2. The fingers are poorly designed such that the force doesn’t transfer well enough to lift the contact surface off the clutch disk. Either the fingers are bending instead of lifting, or the lift height potential is too small to clear the clutch disk, regardless of clutch pedal adjustment.
3. The clutch assembly has a smaller profile, so it is further from the TOB than the OEM clutch assembly. This would require a clutch pedal height adjustment to increase the throw distance and reach the pressure plate splines.
4. The clutch height was adjusted with a worn disk, and the new disk is thicker. The clutch thickness is greater, so it takes more pedal travel to lift the clutch off the disk, so the clutch pedal height needs adjusting.

My guess is clutch pedal adjustment needs to be done.

[stillslow93]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The clutch self-aligns with pressing in the pedal. The transmission input shaft goes into the clutch before going into the pilot bearing, so if the clutch plate is misaligned then it is unlikely the input shaft will go into the pilot bearing and bolt up. Again, even if there was a minuscule offset, pressing the pedal will self-align the disc.

The only way this is a problem is if the clutch is binding so hard on the input shaft that wasn’t lubricated and was scored that the shaft is forcing the clutch plate into the flywheel constantly—unlikely.

The only way someone could be locked out of first and reverse is if the clutch is still engaged with the flywheel such that the input shaft is still spinning. How could this happen?

1. The clutch disk is so thick that no amount of pressure can move the fingers of the pressure plate enough to lift the contact surface off the clutch disk, regardless of clutch pedal adjustment.
2. The fingers are poorly designed such that the force doesn’t transfer well enough to lift the contact surface off the clutch disk. Either the fingers are bending instead of lifting, or the lift height potential is too small to clear the clutch disk, regardless of clutch pedal adjustment.
3. The clutch assembly has a smaller profile, so it is further from the TOB than the OEM clutch assembly. This would require a clutch pedal height adjustment to increase the throw distance and reach the pressure plate splines.
4. The clutch height was adjusted with a worn disk, and the new disk is thicker. The clutch thickness is greater, so it takes more pedal travel to lift the clutch off the disk, so the clutch pedal height needs adjusting.

My guess is clutch pedal adjustment needs to be done.

I adjusted everything and did plenty of troubleshooting before I just got under the car and redid the work myself after CSGMike mentioned it was more than likely bad install.



Was it dumb luck? Maybe - I can also say that after all this trouble I will be going exedy next time to save the hastle. BUT, if these clutches and powertrains really are that sensitive to small factors and a standard shop isn't going to meticulously grease and torque everything to perfection then I can only give advice based off my experience.



Yeah I mean I guess I "Solved" Nothing but I can also confidently say that whatever they were doing caused the issue and it isn't just "ACT bad" because doing the work myself did somehow fix it.

[Spawn_Of_Creation]

Originally Posted by soundman98

And if the os giken alignment tool solves the problem, what makes it fundamentally different from the tool included with the clutch?

os giken metal tool vs the softer plastic one that comes with the act clutches that can strip or not fit as tight against the metal splines.

[Grady]

Originally Posted by stillslow93

Was it dumb luck?

At this point who cares. It is working now. I have an ACT clutch put in with the plastic alignment tool. I did have to lift op on the end when tightening down the pressure plate to keep aligned. My guess is that is most peoples problem is the weight of the clutch will deform the plastic tool. Clutch took too long to break in but now I have 20K miles and track use and it still works so I am not complaining.

[zc06_kisstherain]

if it's plastic tool from ACT, then why ACT includes this and cause problem?