Car runs terrible after switching from OFT to ECUTEK

[Joe85C]

To start, I had the OFT for over 2 years and ran the stage 2 e85 tune for almost 2 years straight before switching to a custom ECUTEK e85 tune. Car was running 100% perfect the entire time while using the OFT from the start to the last drive before I got the new ECUTEK tune. I was convinced by my current tuner to hop over to ECUTEK for the convenience of 4 maps and having a large ECUTEK tuner base and easier to work with. So IMMEDIATELY after the first flash of the new ECUTEK tune, the car had horrible throttle issues. And it's not the typical dead pedal that happens every time the car is reflashed and goes back to normal after a few days. That did happen but went away after a few days, but then the new/permanent issues began. This issue is permanent and have gone back 3 times for revisions and he can't fix the issue through the tune. This has been happening since I belive April 2019, it is now December of 2019... In any gear under 4k-4.5k rpms the throttle is extremely sluggish and under acceleration the car is hesitating to accelerate so I have to put more throttle input to accelerate. Also when I'm under 3.5k or so and I give 50% or more throttle quickly, the car bogs or "hiccups" for a brief moment and then accelerates. When trying to downshift under 4.5k the car feels unresponsive and the downshifts sound terrible and feel sluggish. All these issues are very prevalent under 4.5k. When I'm accelerating and pass the 4k range the car "frees" up and feels like normal. Also when shifting under 4.5k, if I dont ease into the throttle after changing gears, the car will again "hiccup" if I put too much throttle in. While doing the revisions my tuner said my intake and exhaust cams are not responding well due to clogged actuators. But how can they clog immediately after the first flash coincidently? Keep in mind with the OFT the car was 100% perfect and IMMEDIATELY after the first ECUTEK flash, car starting having issues. I ran seafoam through the oil 3 times already to try and clean out the actuators and oil, cleaned the MAF sensor and also cleaned the throttle body and disconnected the battery countless times. Weird thing is too is this guy is probably one of the most reputable 86 tuners in the world. So I'm trying to not argue with him as I'm a noob at car stuff. But isnt it weird how immediately the car had issues after the first flash? Something must have happened during the reflash stage because the car went from perfect to running terrible in a matter of moments. It's like somebody hit an on/off switch. That's how much different the car feels. I've heard these symptoms are from bad direct injectors, coil packs, dirty maf sensor but why all of a sudden after the first Flash? I'm thinking it's the tune but I want some of your guys opinions. Im thinking of going back to OFT to see if that'll fix the problem but I dont want throw away my ECUTEK license if I dont need too. Also mods are catless uel headers, catless front pipe, TRD exhaust w/muffler delete, overpipe, drop in filter and running e85. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

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[tomm.brz]

Mostly it s the tune your tuner did that has this behaviour
If you like and are used to the throttle of that oft tune, maybe link it to him and tell him you want that throttle
It s like 5 or 6 tables, he can copy paste in like 20 seconds

If even after that you Don t like the tune, change tuner

[CSG Mike]

Once the cams are activated, they stay activated. Anytime you flash a tune, the cams dont reactivate until everything is happy again.

I bet if you went back to the OFT, it would stay in this state. It has nothing to do with your tuner.

This issue is much more prevalent in older vehicles. The fix is to replace your cam gears. It's also a sign that you're enjoying your car! Because of this issue, the cam gear design and signalling was completely redesigned for the 2017+ refresh.

[tomm.brz]

Care to explain csg Mike?
All the cars I tuned from every years, the vvt activates slow only the following 2 startups of engine, and it activates (in ecutek, vvt enabled = 1) only when oil reaches about 32°C, and the only requisite I noticed is also that idle must be quite steady and lower than 1000tom and throttle must be left alone for a while
After 3rd startup, cam activates super quickly all the time
What you mean change cam gears?

Also didn t notice differences in the heads cam gearing, my mechanic rebuilt my my17 heads and we didn t notice difference from a 2015 brz

[CSG Mike]

The cam gears have a dip to signal their position. That dip, over time, gets gunk in it, and can no longer identify cam position over time, as well as the internals wearing out making the actuation less precise.

17+ cars switched from a dip to a raise, to identify cam gear position, along with the requisite hardware change.

[CSG Mike]

Actual Subaru document

[tomm.brz]

Right

But was has that to do with the vvt needing time to activate independently from the year of the car and the sluggish throttle response of the tune of OP?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

Right

But was has that to do with the vvt needing time to activate independently from the year of the car and the sluggish throttle response of the tune of OP?

I can send you a worn cam gear to inspect yourself if you'd like. It's easier to experience for yourself, than to try to explain.

[86MLR]

? OFT = worked
? Installed Ecutek tune = car now has issues

Personally, if you change something and you find a issue after the change, it's the thing you changed causing the issue.

Not everyone who says they can tune a twin, can actually tune a twin.

My money is on the tune being rubbish.

I would start by getting some other tuner/shop to have a look.

7 months of issue, your either very busy or extremely patient.

[Joe85C]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

? OFT = worked
? Installed Ecutek tune = car now has issues

Personally, if you change something and you find a issue after the change, it's the thing you changed causing the issue.

Not everyone who says they can tune a twin, can actually tune a twin.

My money is on the tune being rubbish.

I would start by getting some other tuner/shop to have a look.

7 months of issue, your either very busy or extremely patient.

That's what I was thinking as well. I wanted to ask for opinions cause my tuners is telling me it's something that's out of his control and is gonna cost me 1,500-2,000$. I'd rather start with some opinions from people who are way more knowledgable then me at this. Although I am not rolling out the probability of my cam gears gone bad, I'm also still skeptical on the tune being faulty. But yet again he has tuned so many of these cars before and is known for tuning this platform. I think switching back to OFT with the same tune and software would be a good start. If it doesnt fix the issue, then I know for sure its a mechanical issue. I was very patient as he told me to run seafoam before the oil changes to see if the actuators can unclog. I did 3 oil changes with 2.5k mile intervals so that's a long time right there.

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[Joe85C]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Once the cams are activated, they stay activated. Anytime you flash a tune, the cams dont reactivate until everything is happy again.

I bet if you went back to the OFT, it would stay in this state. It has nothing to do with your tuner.

This issue is much more prevalent in older vehicles. The fix is to replace your cam gears. It's also a sign that you're enjoying your car! Because of this issue, the cam gear design and signalling was completely redesigned for the 2017+ refresh.

So if I would have kept the OFT this issue may have never happened? I see what you mean by the cams not wanting to act the same once changed. It's just really frustrating to think that if I kept the OFT these issues may have never happened. You think maybe going back to OFT is a good start? Same exact tune and software to be 100% sure it's exactly how it was before the issues started. I'm not counting out the cam issue since what you stated did make sense.

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[Joe85C]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

Mostly it s the tune your tuner did that has this behaviour
If you like and are used to the throttle of that oft tune, maybe link it to him and tell him you want that throttle
It s like 5 or 6 tables, he can copy paste in like 20 seconds

If even after that you Don t like the tune, change tuner

Might do that but I might want to bite the price tag and go completely back to OFT so that way its the same software as well. I did like everything about the OFT too. Convenient and always at arms reach.

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[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Joe85C

So if I would have kept the OFT this issue may have never happened? I see what you mean by the cams not wanting to act the same once changed. It's just really frustrating to think that if I kept the OFT these issues may have never happened. You think maybe going back to OFT is a good start? Same exact tune and software to be 100% sure it's exactly how it was before the issues started. I'm not counting out the cam issue since what you stated did make sense.

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A/B test is always best.

If you go back to OFT and it still acts up, then you know it's your car, not the tune.

[Joe85C]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

A/B test is always best.



If you go back to OFT and it still acts up, then you know it's your car, not the tune.

Thank you for explaining the cam issue very clearly too. I was not aware that if the cams are not in great shape before a new tune/reflash that it can have negative side effects. I had the stage 2 e85 tune for just about 2 years. So it is very possible build up may have occured over time. Thanks for the advice man!

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