Review of "Track Mode" on the MY17+ cars

[Twinz]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

e-diff is a non-issue in an autox environment with an autox setup.

This.

The Tail of the Dragon has some on-camber turns that can initiate the e-diff and it is indeed evil. However, I don't think anything short of a clutch-type diff will "fix" those turns. My 350Z had a Quaife diff that would go open on those same turns. The e-diff on my FRS makes it worse, but my speed out of those corners is/was crap with either car. (And the Z was a base model with no nannies or e-diff)

[juliog]

ABS software/implementation can also screw you. I've only experienced "ice mode" a handful of times. The first time it resulted in a very expensive body shop bill (and happy it stayed at that).

EBD on this car is a safety feature, which in some conditions can be taken advantage of to go faster around a parking lot . On race tracks, pedal dance is universally faster.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Twinz

After driving a 17 in track mode, I think the new track mode is what the old sport mode should have been. (There is nothing "sporty" about the old sport mode) If a driver has any question if they want to turn off the nannies, they should probably just run track mode.

The pedal dance is another issue. I guess one could argue that the twins' particular implementation of EBD is bad, but I can't help but think this same debate took place when ABS started showing up.

"Real drivers don't use ABS" or something to that effect...

Both EBD and ABS are capable of controlling braking in ways that a driver with a brake pedal simply can't. Sure, driving older Miata's with no ABS is more of a challenge , (so they arguably require more "skill" to go fast) but it would never occur to me to disable ABS on a car that has it.

I don't think EBD is a bad thing, but I do like having the option to turn it off. It's really about judiciously choosing when and when not to have/use it.

EBD allows you to decelerate faster, even while cornering, without kicking the rear out, at the cost of not being able to properly left foot brake or trail brake.

Double edged sword in a performance driving environment.

For typical street/commute type driving, it is 100% effective, and I 100% think it should be there; faster deceleration and not having to worry about the rear kick out is going to be a benefit for everyone, universally.


RE: Tail of the Dragon. We drove through there in my BRZ last year at a spirited pace, but with electronics on. I didn't notice much intrusion, but I also have a clutch type diff in my car, and a LOT of droop travel. Perhaps we weren't going fast enough; we still had to drive the car back home to California!

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Based on more recent posts, I believe it's due to his autox background. The driving style of AutoX doesn't result in the pedal dance being faster. Rather, the pedal dance will hurt most driver than help, as EBD lets you do thing you can't with the pedal dance.

e-diff is a non-issue in an autox environment with an autox setup.

OP has not accepted how many times I can see/hear the systems kicking in, in his OWN video!

And you have not accepted that I'm not having a discussion about whether the pedal dance is faster or not. It is faster on track for the people who can get the absolute most out of the car and are willing to risk making a mistake and wrecking the car because of it. To claim that I don't understand what the pedal dance does is not accurate at all as apparently you're not aware of what I do for a living. Yes, I autocross. I also have spent lots of time on track. I also work for SOA and know plenty about these cars.

So let me try to explain this to you again.... I am making an opinion that track mode is great for people who want to go enjoy driving their car hard on track with a reduced risk of wrecking their car, all while having fun still being able to drive very hard without being shut down hard enough to notice anywhere but the skinny part of a stopwatch. They can still go fast, and they can still slide a car and learn car control, and they can still say "ah shit, stability control saved my ass there, glad I have track mode on and didn't wreck my car. But it's a shame I won't bring home that HUGE CASH PRIZE for fast lap at the end of the track day, bruh."

[justint5387]

CSG Mike is god.

Auto-x driving style means slow track driver. Learn how to drive autocrossers

[CSG Mike]

I think we can sum it up as, you prefer for hobbyists to have the car fix their driving errors for them, whereas I prefer to educate them on how to make the corrections themselves.

Funny you bring up the HPDE trophy; the HUGE CASH PRIZES I got paid for my entire season and then some last year.

Being that you work for SoA, you should already know precisely how/where/why the stability control is slowing you down; a system that is utilizing power reduction and/or brakes, at a car of this power level, functions by fundamentally slowing the car down.

Conversely, you should also know, that most novices would never recognize when their aids are kicking in.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by justint5387

CSG Mike is god.

Auto-x driving style means slow track driver. Learn how to drive autocrossers

Not at all. Just different driving skillsets for different disciplines.

[kuidaore]

Originally Posted by trippinbillies40

And you have not accepted that I'm not having a discussion about whether the pedal dance is faster or not. It is faster on track for the people who can get the absolute most out of the car and are willing to risk making a mistake and wrecking the car because of it. To claim that I don't understand what the pedal dance does is not accurate at all as apparently you're not aware of what I do for a living. Yes, I autocross. I also have spent lots of time on track. I also work for SOA and know plenty about these cars.

So let me try to explain this to you again.... I am making an opinion that track mode is great for people who want to go enjoy driving their car hard on track with a reduced risk of wrecking their car, all while having fun still being able to drive very hard without being shut down hard enough to notice anywhere but the skinny part of a stopwatch. They can still go fast, and they can still slide a car and learn car control, and they can still say "ah shit, stability control saved my ass there, glad I have track mode on and didn't wreck my car. But it's a shame I won't bring home that HUGE CASH PRIZE for fast lap at the end of the track day, bruh."

Maybe post some data and open your mind to more possibilities? You don't need to be apprehensive about pedal dancing. It will actually expose limits of your own ability immediately and refine your driving. There are pretty clear areas in your video where your technique is holding you back from faster lap times as well as TC kicking in key areas where you can gain more time. I was once one to rely on Sport VSC in my car where I actually got faster and reduced risk on track via coaching and technique with pedal dancing.

[Briankbot]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Not at all. Just different driving skillsets for different disciplines.

Different techniques but NOT different skill sets. If you can't recognize that, maybe you should reassess the validity of your perspective.

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by kuidaore

Maybe post some data and open your mind to more possibilities? You don't need to be apprehensive about pedal dancing. It will actually expose limits of your own ability immediately and refine your driving. There are pretty clear areas in your video where your technique is holding you back from faster lap times as well as TC kicking in key areas where you can gain more time. I was once one to rely on Sport VSC in my car where I actually got faster and reduced risk on track via coaching and technique with pedal dancing.

I seriously don't know how to explain this any other way.... If you read my original post, I drove with track mode on and purposely drove hard to force it into action to see what it can and will do. It had nothing to do with looking for lap times, and the post has nothing to do with people doing track days looking for lap times. What most people in this thread don't seem to grasp is that there is a whole large market out there for people who want to do track days and never look at a stopwatch. And sure, you can teach them to do the pedal dance and save the car. I certainly learned that way and never wrecked a car, but there are plenty of people who HAVE wrecked cars at track days when they run out of talent, and track mode, in my opinion, is a great tool for people to have some fun in their car with the reassurance that the car is trying to stay out of their way of having fun, all while adding a little bit of insurance to bringing their car home in one piece.

I guess what I don't understand is why you guys are so against a fun, sporty track mode that can save some people that have no interest in looking at lap times. You say that you'd rather teach them to save the car themselves, but I argue that EVERYONE makes mistakes. If they didn't, we'd never see a wreck in Formula 1, but Romain Grosjean just pulled a bonehead move in the last race, didn't save it, and took out 4 people. If he can do it, so can Joe Rookie Track Day Driver. Will track mode save every wreck? Of course not. Will it save a lot of them while still letting someone learn a good amount of car control? Absolutely.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by trippinbillies40

If they didn't, we'd never see a wreck in Formula 1, but Romain Grosjean just pulled a bonehead move in the last race, didn't save it, and took out 4 people.

He was trying to avoid the car in front of him that got loose.

You had me up until this sentence.

[Joesurf79]

(hits 86 nanny switch)

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

He was trying to avoid the car in front of him that got loose.

You had me up until this sentence.

Maybe if he had track mode he would have saved it. Just sayin'...




KIDDING.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by trippinbillies40

Maybe if he had track mode he would have saved it. Just sayin'...




KIDDING.

'dat 2014 Red Bull Traction Control