Killer B Motorsport 2022+ FA24 BRZ/GR86 Oil Retention Baffle Development

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Frost

Call me dumb but where is this upgraded oil pan in the pictures?

As far as I can tell, it's this. Arrow pointing at the drain plug.

[BioRebel]

I'm disappointed to hear the prototype didn't solve the problem. But VERY appreciative of all the effort you're putting into this. And a serious thank you for sharing all this information.
I hope vertical baffles or some sort of alternative pickup tube can solve it, because I'd rather not install an accusump.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by 900BRZ

It seems to be consistent rather than getting worse over a session.

What I’m thinking about right now is: If we can’t address the speed at which the oil returns, then all we can do is try to keep as much oil available to the pickup as possible. I think the Kazama design can help by reducing the effects of the offset pickup. I’m also thinking the Kazama-style baffle in combination with an overfill might be good enough to even out most of these drops.

Of course, accusumps or dry sumps are still an option down the line, but even an accusump becomes less necessary if you can mechanically keep the oil available to the pickup with a baffle.

That is probably the best and easiest solution. I plan on going accusump in my first gen, I almost have all the parts to install though I have heard a lot of mixed opinions on them from "don't work" to "won't run without it."

[Frost]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

That is probably the best and easiest solution. I plan on going accusump in my first gen, I almost have all the parts to install though I have heard a lot of mixed opinions on them from "don't work" to "won't run without it."

I would love to hear the technical reasons behind why Accusumps "don't work".

I have fought tons of people in my line of work when they call me to get me to go to site because "it don't work". Give me something more concrete. What DIDN'T work?

The basis of an accusump is simple, if measured oil pressure that the Accusump is reading is less than a trigger value, the Accumsump pushes the oil in the reservoir into the system to compensate for the said pressure drop.

What matters is what air pressure the sump is pressurized with and what the trigger point and trigger mechanism is. Other factors to consider are what mechanism is in place to recharge the sump? Do you want it a one-shot only (ie: it goes off, you slow down and pit) or do you go all fancy and get their auto-recharge stuff with all the electronics?

I hate it when people say "it doesn't work" without a follow up.

Yeah, I got triggered.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Frost

What matters is what air pressure the sump is pressurized with and what the trigger point and trigger mechanism is. Other factors to consider are what mechanism is in place to recharge the sump? Do you want it a one-shot only (ie: it goes off, you slow down and pit) or do you go all fancy and get their auto-recharge stuff with all the electronics?.

95% sure the standard setup recharges the accusump on the fly, kinda the point! Not sure about the precise mechanism by which that happens, but definitely standard setup allows for multiple charges/discharges of the accusump depending on oil pressure at the engine.

After the pressure triggered solenoid valve in my setp on the RX-7 quit working, I just wired it to the ignition along with an on/off switch. That way I could just discharge it before starting the car (pre-oiling), leave the valve open while on track, then on cool-down lap close the valve at medium-high rpm to save oil for pre-oiling next start-up.

Really hoping to avoid the complexity cost and weight of an Accusump in my '23, but right now it seems like it might be the best solution...

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Frost

I would love to hear the technical reasons behind why Accusumps "don't work".

I have fought tons of people in my line of work when they call me to get me to go to site because "it don't work". Give me something more concrete. What DIDN'T work?

The basis of an accusump is simple, if measured oil pressure that the Accusump is reading is less than a trigger value, the Accumsump pushes the oil in the reservoir into the system to compensate for the said pressure drop.

What matters is what air pressure the sump is pressurized with and what the trigger point and trigger mechanism is. Other factors to consider are what mechanism is in place to recharge the sump? Do you want it a one-shot only (ie: it goes off, you slow down and pit) or do you go all fancy and get their auto-recharge stuff with all the electronics?

I hate it when people say "it doesn't work" without a follow up.

Yeah, I got triggered.

You can start at post 25. KillerB doesn't say they don't work, he just doesn't believe ours is a good application for it.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...=152642&page=2

If I had the time to go down the rabbit hole, again, i'd link you back to all the info I read. I browsed a lot of other car forums to gather information before I made my purchase. There were not a lot of naysayers about running an accumulator. The gist of a lot of them echo'd the above, they act more as a dampener in the system and when using a manual valve they are charging when ever they get enough pressure to refill. This may end up being a situation where you don't want the pressure backfilling into the accumulator. I guess I shouldn't say "doesn't work" and said "don't believe the tradeoff was worth it."

[FrickingReallySlow]

this may be an obvious question but for the people that run external oil coolers on track, how do you judge the extra amount of oil you actually need to add to the system? do you add the volume of the hoses + manufacturer specs of the volume of the oil cooler? in this scenario you're not "overfilling" you're just increasing amount of oil since the systems's capacity has now increased

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by FrickingReallySlow

this may be an obvious question but for the people that run external oil coolers on track, how do you judge the extra amount of oil you actually need to add to the system? do you add the volume of the hoses + manufacturer specs of the volume of the oil cooler? in this scenario you're not "overfilling" you're just increasing amount of oil since the systems's capacity has now increased

When I first did mine I overfilled by almost a quart, ran it up to temp. Then added as necessary. Some kits tell you about how much extra they hold.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

You can start at post 25. KillerB doesn't say they don't work, he just doesn't believe ours is a good application for it.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...=152642&page=2

If I had the time to go down the rabbit hole, again, i'd link you back to all the info I read. I browsed a lot of other car forums to gather information before I made my purchase. There were not a lot of naysayers about running an accumulator. The gist of a lot of them echo'd the above, they act more as a dampener in the system and when using a manual valve they are charging when ever they get enough pressure to refill. This may end up being a situation where you don't want the pressure backfilling into the accumulator. I guess I shouldn't say "doesn't work" and said "don't believe the tradeoff was worth it."

He goes into detail answering my questions around it here.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...21#post3565621

[Frost]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

You can start at post 25. KillerB doesn't say they don't work, he just doesn't believe ours is a good application for it.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...=152642&page=2

If I had the time to go down the rabbit hole, again, i'd link you back to all the info I read. I browsed a lot of other car forums to gather information before I made my purchase. There were not a lot of naysayers about running an accumulator. The gist of a lot of them echo'd the above, they act more as a dampener in the system and when using a manual valve they are charging when ever they get enough pressure to refill. This may end up being a situation where you don't want the pressure backfilling into the accumulator. I guess I shouldn't say "doesn't work" and said "don't believe the tradeoff was worth it."

Originally Posted by Blighty

He goes into detail answering my questions around it here.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...21#post3565621

I agree with all of the sentiments from KillerB, he's not wrong. I like he goes into why its an inappropriate solution as opposed to it doesn't work. Its a very dumb device that basically is a "If oil < this pressure, inject" and doesn't really reflect the true needs of the engine. Its also why I went on a hunt for a dry sump over installing an accusump. I'm still waiting word on a possible dry sump solution for myself.

[blsfrs]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

You can start at post 25. KillerB doesn't say they don't work, he just doesn't believe ours is a good application for it.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...=152642&page=2

If I had the time to go down the rabbit hole, again, i'd link you back to all the info I read. I browsed a lot of other car forums to gather information before I made my purchase. There were not a lot of naysayers about running an accumulator. The gist of a lot of them echo'd the above, they act more as a dampener in the system and when using a manual valve they are charging when ever they get enough pressure to refill. This may end up being a situation where you don't want the pressure backfilling into the accumulator. I guess I shouldn't say "doesn't work" and said "don't believe the tradeoff was worth it."

Most of the information on Accusumps seems to be anecdotal and/or theoretical. I hope someone gets around to doing on track datalogging to see if: A. the Accusump actually prevents loss of pressure, and B. does recharging the Accusump negatively affect oil pressure.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by blsfrs

Most of the information on Accusumps seems to be anecdotal and/or theoretical. I hope someone gets around to doing on track datalogging to see if: A. the Accusump actually prevents loss of pressure, and B. does recharging the Accusump negatively affect oil pressure.

That is kind of why I bought mine. Curious how it will work out for me.

[vindiesel]

need to set this guy up with oil pressure gauge and data log high mph turns

[OldBiker]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

When I first did mine I overfilled by almost a quart, ran it up to temp. Then added as necessary. Some kits tell you about how much extra they hold.

Doesn't all the oil from the cooler return back to the sump when you turn off the engine? In which case you would not know your true operating oil level! (And if the oil stays in the cooler... then you would need a separate drain plug for oil changes.)