EL vs UEL Header Showdown

[Strat_FRS]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

It seems like the engine is just plain out of flow up top, interestingly.

The ports look to be very similarly sized to the 2.0 if not identical.



I have to revisit the cams - but if that's another area of interest on the 2.4.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Yeah, the OEMs are much better at optimizing things from the factory these days.

It's not like the Fox-body/SN95 days, where you could do a CAI, Throttle Body, header and full exhaust and pick 35%hp and 45%tq.

[Ernest72]

Go UEL for sound more than anything, if you like the subie rumble. If not get EL. The power difference is not earth shattering and likely only matters if you are racing competitively.

[vindiesel]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Go UEL for sound more than anything, if you like the subie rumble. If not get EL. The power difference is not earth shattering and likely only matters if you are racing competitively.

You just hurt a lot of people’s feelings. They may want to put “el” as a windshield banner flexing their several hp more then Uel. Ha ha

I see no point in doing exhaust but if I do definitely uel first. Ye olde 4 banger sound gets old. “Bro el header makes these cars sound deep (hits vape pen) it doesn’t sound like a normal 4 cylinder.”

[Blighty]

I assume they are tongue in cheek calling this the "ultimate" UEL/EL shootout.

One UEL header they have been tuning for the car over time, one EL they pop on and go bang (they lost top end on their "tune"), and one more that wasn't actually tested on the car.

I was enjoying his videos, but this one just seems a bit rubbish.

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by vindiesel

You just hurt a lot of people’s feelings. They may want to put “el” as a windshield banner flexing their several hp more then Uel. Ha ha

I see no point in doing exhaust but if I do definitely uel first. Ye olde 4 banger sound gets old. “Bro uel header makes these cars sound deep (hits vape pen) it doesn’t sound like a normal 4 cylinder.”

Fixed for Subi accuracy.


Anywho, the 2.4 is certainly responding differently than the 2.0, with their particular tune at least. BUT, the 2.4l has also been saddle with headers designed for an engine 20% smaller so theres that. E85 is still looking like the best bang for the buck, no surprise.

[dragoontwo]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

Fixed for Subi accuracy.


Anywho, the 2.4 is certainly responding differently than the 2.0, with their particular tune at least. BUT, the 2.4l has also been saddle with headers designed for an engine 20% smaller so theres that. E85 is still looking like the best bang for the buck, no surprise.

Does it really matter so long as the header tubes at the flange are still larger that the ports in the head?

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by dragoontwo

Does it really matter so long as the header tubes at the flange are still larger that the ports in the head?

Yes, it does. The OEM MY23+ manifold has larger primary and secondaries compare to MY13-21.

[dragoontwo]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

Yes, it does. The OEM MY23+ manifold has larger primary and secondaries compare to MY13-21.

I'm not talking about the stock headers.

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by dragoontwo

I'm not talking about the stock headers.

I am trying to explain that it clearly makes a difference because OEM made a design change so it applies to aftermarket designs as well. I referenced them to substantiate my claim. JDL is redesigning their EL header with slightly larger primaries for the 2.4l as well.

[DocWalt]

JDL was one of very few aftermarket headers that made headers with big enough runners to adapt to a second gen in the first place. I'm surprised the Tomei did as well as it did on this dyno, I've seen it *lose* power up top on other second gens because it can't flow enough.

[Strat_FRS]

More than happy to tune and optimize headers as I come across them and if manufacturers send them in on our development car. We've had a pretty good sample and have spent many hours on the dyno optimizing each setup and controlling for variables. The numbers and measurements don't lie - I am not in any camp here - sharing the information objectively. We don't design headers but we do certainly know how to optimize a calibration.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Strat_FRS

More than happy to tune and optimize headers as I come across them and if manufacturers send them in on our development car. We've had a pretty good sample and have spent many hours on the dyno optimizing each setup and controlling for variables. The numbers and measurements don't lie - I am not in any camp here - sharing the information objectively. We don't design headers but we do certainly know how to optimize a calibration.

I wonder what you call your video once you have more than 2 UEL and 1 EL header to test in a day.

"Super Ultimate UEL/EL header shootout"?

/s

More seriously, with the amount of pulls and tuning you did for your original header, do you think that there is a potential bias within the mapping? Its not like you went through much of the process of what you would change for a EUL or EL tune, and any things you found with that.

[StormTrooper]

Personally I think a better test would be to get as many NA modified cars as reasonably possible at a dyno day and see what happens.

Doesn't make sense that nothing would be lost by going UEL when the car stock uses EL and pretty much every similar car makes more on the top with EL. Maybe those headers require more tuning? maybe higher octane fuel limits gains.

Just doesn't make sense that the cheapest UEL is the best option.