COVID Developments and News

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Not true any longer. We have moved way beyond survival of the fittest.

Or, perhaps the definition of “fitness” has changed.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

Or, perhaps the definition of “fitness” has changed.

I was going to respond with something along these line, but then I thought about it and in today’s society you can be the most incompetent human being in all regards and still survive.

Thrive and excel typical require a level of “fitness” but in the sense of the new definition of “fitness” you are probably referencing.

[Dadhawk]

Survival of the fittest in no way implies "fitness". For example, small little mammalian creatures were better fit to survive the asteroid than the dinosaurs, but I don't believe they had a better fitness level than a T-Rex.

Modern medicine has, for the most part, done away with a lot of the "survival of the fittest" when it comes to disease, birth defects, etc. It's not all a bad thing but it is a thing that upsets the evolutionary cart.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by weederr33

Well clearly we need the hunger games.

I enjoy any good game that involves a bow.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Survival of the fittest in no way implies "fitness". For example, small little mammalian creatures were better fit to survive the asteroid than the dinosaurs, but I don't believe they had a better fitness level than a T-Rex.

Modern medicine has, for the most part, done away with a lot of the "survival of the fittest" when it comes to disease, birth defects, etc. It's not all a bad thing but it is a thing that upsets the evolutionary cart.

While I don't disagree completely, I don't think of fitness as a necessarily physical trait. It's not about pushups and deadlifts, it's about suitability. Suitability and adaptability to a particular environment. In today's world, for humans, physical strength and agility, while impressive to watch, take a distant back seat to intellectual development and flexibility. Many of the greatest minds in science and the arts have labored under some form of disability. (Think Stephen Hawking)

As we've seen, a big chunk of the population encounters serious intellectual deficits when the supposed "rules" of the game of life change. As, as we've seen in the last several months, some number of those unable to adapt to the changes have died.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

While I don't disagree completely, I don't think of fitness as a necessarily physical trait. It's not about pushups and deadlifts, it's about suitability. Suitability and adaptability to a particular environment. In today's world, for humans, physical strength and agility, while impressive to watch, take a distant back seat to intellectual development and flexibility. Many of the greatest minds in science and the arts have labored under some form of disability. (Think Stephen Hawking) .

Ultimately, I think we are basically saying the same thing.

[spike021]

The spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 variant A.30 is heavily mutated and evades vaccine-induced antibodies with high efficiency

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by spike021

The spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 variant A.30 is heavily mutated and evades vaccine-induced antibodies with high efficiency

This study is saying that the vaccine doesn't work on variants and actually helps COVID spread within the body to other systems.

I am really unsure why pro-vax people liked this, unless they are just excited to get information.

Not trying to be snarky or anything like that.

Genuinely curious.

[dpfarr]

What the fuck are you talking about? The last couple sentences of their findings:

“Neutralization resistance exceeded that of the Beta (B.1.351) variant, which is markedly neutralization resistant in cell culture and, in comparison with the Alpha (B.1.1.7) variant, is less well inhibited by the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine [9]. Nevertheless, heterologous ChAdOx1 nCoV-19/BNT162b2 vaccination, which was previously shown to augment neutralizing antibody responses against VOCs compared to corresponding homologous vaccinations [7, 10], might offer robust protection against the A.30 variant. Collectively, our results suggest that the SARS-CoV-2 variant A.30 can evade control by vaccine-induced antibodies and might show an increased capacity to enter cells in a cathepsin L-dependent manner, which might particularly aid in the extrapulmonary spread. As a consequence, the potential spread of the A.30 variant warrants close monitoring and rapid installment of countermeasures.”

[Atropine]

@dpfarr

Isn't what you quoted saying:

variants evades antibodies (as in, they don't stop the infection) and the extrapulmonary spread means that its jumps from the pulmonary system and into other systems like vascular or lymphatic for example.

AKA it helps the infection spread within the body?

I read this when I first woke up, so I wasn't super clear headed...

But I am still getting "this strain evades antibodies from vaccine and helps spread out of the pulmonary system"

There was fear that the vaccine would produce variants that survive the vaccine and avoid it. This was one of the main points against using/releasing a "leaky vaccine".

Is this study confiriming that fear?

Because it appears to be saying this variant avoids vaccine immunity and actively spread more because of it?
EDIT:
Ok,I reread this a couple more times and see where my reading comprehension was bad.
It's saying that it aids in extrapulmonary spread...which in this sentence,it means it helps prevent it.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Atropine

This study is saying that the vaccine doesn't work on variants and actually helps COVID spread within the body to other systems.

I am really unsure why pro-vax people liked this, unless they are just excited to get information.

Not trying to be snarky or anything like that.

Genuinely curious.

I thanked Spike for the useful post because he provided information regarding an emerging variant that could require other mitigating effects. This isn't FB, there isn't a "like" button. It's not good news.

This is talking about a single variant which has a mutated spike protein, the part that the vaccines cause the immune system to target. This is also the part that an unvaccinated immune system would typically target if my understanding is correct. So for this particular variant, it sounds like the current set of vaccines is less effective. It's the same reason why flu shots are only really effective for one year.

This actually supports the argument for every single person to get vaccinated. For a mutation, there is always a Patient Zero, and being vaccinated against the majority of current strains reduces the chance of any one person becoming Patient Zero for the next strain. This reduced risk actually improves overall effectiveness rate of the original vaccine for everyone else.

One other interesting point is the results seem to indicate mixing Pfizer and AZ vaccines is considered a good defense against A.30, if I understood that correctly. I wonder if that also is the case for Pfizer/J&J.

[wbradley]

Good thing wahwahbradley here had Pfizer then Moderna.

Is that wahwah like the guitar pedal George Harrison was known for using?

I'm cool with that, the same pedal makes the wacka chacka sound in old 70's cop movies.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Atropine

This study is saying that the vaccine doesn't work on variants and actually helps COVID spread within the body to other systems.

I am really unsure why pro-vax people liked this, unless they are just excited to get information.

Not trying to be snarky or anything like that.

Genuinely curious.

Its useful information which reiterates that there are still new strains coming. And yes, you are being snarky.

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by weederr33

Its useful information which reiterates that there are still new strains coming. And yes, you are being snarky.

I really wasn't man.

Like a lot of research journals, it is poorly worded (doesn't flow well).

It was saying that it could be used for other applications as well.

I am not trying to fight anyone here about this.

I am exposed to COVID every day at work. I would love for there to be a shot that stop transmission (like a real/traditional vaccine).

These "vaccines" are more prophylactics, as in they help reduce symptoms and prevent death.

Most everyone in this thread as been an asshole at some point. This is a tough topic because leadership has been poor on this subject and many of us have had personal losses from COVID. This could be the loss of a loved one or the loss of a private business/livelihood or the loss of a hobby.

Not a single person in this thread is happy where this has gone.

Anway...
/olivebranch

We are all on the same side. We want COVID to away, we just aren't all on the same page on how to get there.