Gen 1 car value?

[chipmunk]

I have this strange feeling that they'll mess up the 2nd gen somehow, either making it less tunable, or some other inherent flaw.... maybe the 1st gen will become more desirable in that light....

Maybe the hollywood has taught me to lower my hopes for sequels.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

Who invests money in cars?

I could die tomorrow.... If a 2nd gen comes out and is RWD, MT, 2door, with good amounts of both Toyota & Subaru DNA, I'm all over it.

Wealthy people?

[nikitopo]

@chipmunk We'll have to wait, but for the moment things look to the worst.

Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by chipmunk

I have this strange feeling that they'll mess up the 2nd gen somehow, either making it less tunable, or some other inherent flaw.... maybe the 1st gen will become more desirable in that light....

Maybe the hollywood has taught me to lower my hopes for sequels.

I bet its going to be like a baby 4cyl supra.

If thats a good or bad thing thats up to the driver. All i know is that the 86 and supras dont really drive the same, but both are fun and capable in their own right.

I think the 86 is known for being an extension of your body, but the supra isnt, and im guessing the new 86 is gonna lose that "extension of your body" feeling.

[NARFALICIOUS]

Originally Posted by wbradley

Wealthy people?

What I mean is, there are better investments and I'd say most wealthy people got wealthy investing in other ventures, not their daily driver.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

What I mean is, there are better investments and I'd say most wealthy people got wealthy investing in other ventures, not their daily driver.

That's actually my brother-in-law's daily during the winter months. But, it's also a valuable resto mod that has significant value.

[NorthernDriver]

Early cars are going to be worth like 5$ eventually
(exaggeration...but you get my vibe)

[Red-86]

Odd that folk are writing the mkII off so early. What we’ve learned recently about the likely development is that the new car looks more like a heavy mid-life re-skin with a rebore than a substantial change. That should be good news for those who loved the mkI and were worried about the new car changing the fundamentals. It doesn’t look like it has, if anything it is the people who wanted a serious shift in performance (including turbo) who will be most disappointed.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Red-86

Odd that folk are writing the mkII off so early. What we’ve learned recently about the likely development is that the new car looks more like a heavy mid-life re-skin with a rebore than a substantial change. That should be good news for those who loved the mkI and were worried about the new car changing the fundamentals. It doesn’t look like it has, if anything it is the people who wanted a serious shift in performance (including turbo) who will be most disappointed.

This always happens with current owners when a new model comes. A subgroup will rather convince themselves they don’t like the new one rather than admitting they can’t or don’t want to spend the money on one.

I’m with you, a heavy reskin sounds great, it should still be the car we love underneath.

[86MLR]

Most of the people who only hold cars for 3 to 5 years will flip the older version/model/gen/facelift for the new version/model/gen/facelift.

This always happens, from this the older version/model/gen/facelift will flood dealers and private sales, this always happens.

Then the used car buyers will swoop in, this always happens.

90% of new car buyers don't really care about power figures, they want a pretty car with good fuel economy, good safety and lots of electronic devices to update their fake online lives.

The 9% will head to the aftermarket.

1% will not and talk about purity and other waffle that keeps them happy and "unique".

These cars whilst cool are not something that will will see any return, they will see typical depreciation to old versions/models/gen/facelifts throughout mass produced automotive history.

I am loving all the assumptions and guesswork that a could of pics provid though.

Hopefully the current Zombie apocalypse gives us a low pricepoint at the dealers for the new car.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

90% of new car buyers don't really care about power figures, they want a pretty car with good fuel economy, good safety and lots of electronic devices to update their fake online lives.

This really only applies to mainstream car buyers who see cars as transport or status symbols (for prestige brands). Sports coupe buyers are a bit different, whilst there is a certain proportion who just want a good looking coupe with nice infotainment etc, I would argue the proportion of sports coupe buyers who factor power and performance into their decision is much higher than, say, the average SUV buyer.

There is no question that the perceived lack of power and torque robbed the twins of some sales. Exactly how many is impossible to say as the new budget sports coupe market is pretty thin these days, with not a lot of options (realistically just the twins, the MX-5, and 370Z, and at a stretch the Mustang and Camaro although I argue they are pony cars, not sports cars per se).

These cars whilst cool are not something that will will see any return, they will see typical depreciation to old versions/models/gen/facelifts throughout mass produced automotive history.

Agree that the 1st gen twins will continue to depreciate, especially since the 2nd gen seems to still be on track, which eliminates the possibility of the 1st gen being something exclusive. With a 2nd gen coming down the pipeline that looks to have preserved the recipe (simple, light NA RWD) there is really nothing to keep 1st gen values artificially high. There are thousands of them available used, and they are not some kind of limited edition exotic car. Eventually they will hit some kind of depreciation floor, and they’ll never be as cheap as say a Corolla from the same year, but an investment they are not.

Hopefully the current Zombie apocalypse gives us a low pricepoint at the dealers for the new car.

This is very regional. Where I am, Covid hasn’t really made much difference to new car prices, because the virus has not, so far, broken containment so people are still able to go out and car shop, and the local economy hasn’t really been hit as hard as other places. All that could change, of course, but so far I wouldn’t hold out any hope for a cheaper 2nd gen... I expect a AU$5k price increase at minimum, if anything, to cover development costs and the extra safety tech etc that Subaru seem to favour.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by Red-86

This really only applies to mainstream car buyers who see cars as transport or status symbols (for prestige brands). Sports coupe buyers are a bit different, whilst there is a certain proportion who just want a good looking coupe with nice infotainment etc, I would argue the proportion of sports coupe buyers who factor power and performance into their decision is much higher than, say, the average SUV buyer.

There is no question that the perceived lack of power and torque robbed the twins of some sales. Exactly how many is impossible to say as the new budget sports coupe market is pretty thin these days, with not a lot of options (realistically just the twins, the MX-5, and 370Z, and at a stretch the Mustang and Camaro although I argue they are pony cars, not sports cars per se).



Agree that the 1st gen twins will continue to depreciate, especially since the 2nd gen seems to still be on track, which eliminates the possibility of the 1st gen being something exclusive. With a 2nd gen coming down the pipeline that looks to have preserved the recipe (simple, light NA RWD) there is really nothing to keep 1st gen values artificially high. There are thousands of them available used, and they are not some kind of limited edition exotic car. Eventually they will hit some kind of depreciation floor, and they’ll never be as cheap as say a Corolla from the same year, but an investment they are not.



This is very regional. Where I am, Covid hasn’t really made much difference to new car prices, because the virus has not, so far, broken containment so people are still able to go out and car shop, and the local economy hasn’t really been hit as hard as other places. All that could change, of course, but so far I wouldn’t hold out any hope for a cheaper 2nd gen... I expect a AU$5k price increase at minimum, if anything, to cover development costs and the extra safety tech etc that Subaru seem to favour.

An additional $5k aud would put the GT at $40k aud and the GTS or limited nearly at $55k

The majority of buyers I've seen are young males and older females, the additional cost will be hard to justify for alot of people.

This platform was cheap when it was released, $28k aud to $32k aud, they sold a heap, over the years the price has risen significantly, to a point where there is better bang for your buck.

Those new Corolla ascent sports are selling like hotcakes at under $30k aud, and all the kool kids are going Hybrid which are under $35k aud.

Unless they drop the new car price to be competitive with the new sporty Corollas they will not be aanywhere near as popular as when they were initially released.

Look at the current sales numbers, they haven't really been selling well for the last few years.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the things, not the boxer engine but the whole light RWD, manual NA thing, if they release a sweet new thing I might end up with another one, maybe????, but for over $50k aud it had better be bloody good.

My guess is a GTS or limited edition (I only buy top shelf) would be anywhere from $55-60k aud, and the GT for $45-50k aud.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/dealer/new/toyota/86/

Meh, at this stage it is all guess work and speculation anyways.

Until then, I'm rolling in my old SS Commodore.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

An additional $5k aud would put the GT at $40k aud and the GTS or limited nearly at $55k

The majority of buyers I've seen are young males and older females, the additional cost will be hard to justify for alot of people.

This platform was cheap when it was released, $28k aud to $32k aud, they sold a heap, over the years the price has risen significantly, to a point where there is better bang for your buck.

Those new Corolla ascent sports are selling like hotcakes at under $30k aud, and all the kool kids are going Hybrid which are under $35k aud.

Unless they drop the new car price to be competitive with the new sporty Corollas they will not be aanywhere near as popular as when they were initially released.

Look at the current sales numbers, they haven't really been selling well for the last few years.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the things, not the boxer engine but the whole light RWD, manual NA thing, if they release a sweet new thing I might end up with another one, maybe????, but for over $50k aud it had better be bloody good.

My guess is a GTS or limited edition (I only buy top shelf) would be anywhere from $55-60k aud, and the GT for $45-50k aud.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/dealer/new/toyota/86/

Meh, at this stage it is all guess work and speculation anyways.

Until then, I'm rolling in my old SS Commodore.

Just wait for the new car, then buy an older Twin for dirt cheap and build it to make it what you want. You will spend half of that 55k you talk about and it will be special because you made it.

Let’s think about that new STI S209 that’s selling for 70k for a Subaru. I mean that guy will have his doors blow off my modified STIs for far less than half the price. And if you think you are special, no one cares because they only made so many. We are not collectors, we are enthusiasts and most are likely just consumers who need a cool car to go from A to B. Maybe someone will care 30 years from now, but the EVs that are available at that time will also blow its doors off.

Don’t assume past consumer habits will translate to the future. I know many people who swore they would buy an older classic and many did. But after driving it and comparing it to their modern sports car, they realized it’s just an old car. Some like that , but most of them like it because it reminds them of their youth and their first cars. The newer generations first cars are getting better and better and my prediction is they don’t want that old clunker or at least not at that high of a price.

We already see evidence of this with resto-mods, where people need to put modern suspensions, engines, trannies and comforts in an older car. There will always be some purists, but will it be enough to keep demand high and prices high. If not prices will drop. I mean imagine Taycan performance for under 50k, that will be tough for old cars to compete with.

All that said I am one of those people who would likely buy that old car, but we are getting rarer.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Just wait for the new car, then buy an older Twin for dirt cheap and build it to make it what you want. You will spend half of that 55k you talk about and it will be special because you made it.

Let’s think about that new STI S209 that’s selling for 70k for a Subaru. I mean that guy will have his doors blow off my modified STIs for far less than half the price. And if you think you are special, no one cares because they only made so many. We are not collectors, we are enthusiasts and most are likely just consumers who need a cool car to go from A to B. Maybe someone will care 30 years from now, but the EVs that are available at that time will also blow its doors off.

Don’t assume past consumer habits will translate to the future. I know many people who swore they would buy an older classic and many did. But after driving it and comparing it to their modern sports car, they realized it’s just an old car. Some like that , but most of them like it because it reminds them of their youth and their first cars. The newer generations first cars are getting better and better and my prediction is they don’t want that old clunker or at least not at that high of a price.

We already see evidence of this with resto-mods, where people need to put modern suspensions, engines, trannies and comforts in an older car. There will always be some purists, but will it be enough to keep demand high and prices high. If not prices will drop. I mean imagine Taycan performance for under 50k, that will be tough for old cars to compete with.

All that said I am one of those people who would likely buy that old car, but we are getting rarer.

Whatever I get, it will end up modified.

As for performance, these are only cheap cars, there's lots of stuff that will out perform them, but, as they are cheap cars I don't really have to worry about where I park it or, like my old one, if I kill it.

I do like the look of those Apollo blue cars though, worst comes to worst, if I can stomach another boxer, and nothing new floats my boat, a new Apollo blue with a AVO would fit in my garage quite well.