2020 Toyota GR Supra Revealed!

[gymratter]

(before the official press release) the pro 2.0 people over at the MKV forum said the it was going to have all the bells and whistles of the 3.0 but minus 2 cylinders for $10k less. now that we found out that its basically Japan's 2.0 stripped down version with the 255hp tune for only $8k less, the interested has seem to die down.

[BA9092]

Originally Posted by nashcarr

The automatic scares me away from the 2.0 MORE than the fact that it only has an open differential.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by ZDan

$43k is hardly the cost of an "economy" car. And the FT86 comes with a limited slip at a MUCH lower price.

And this.

The "automatic only" is where they dropped the ball on the 2.0.

Sure, it would've been nice to have a manual in the 3.0 as well, but more and more performance cars are going the auto-only way - C8, the Italians, R8... Even the R35 has always been auto-only.

But, coming back to the 2.0. In auto-only, it can't really compete with anything. The MX-5, 86 and Mustang all get manuals and they'd be the closest competitors.

And while the 2.0 is light and lively, it still begs for performance upgrades to be a formidable target to attract buyers away from the aforementioned models. But already at $43k, there is little room for justifiable mods when you "should've just gotten..."

It also maybe more balanced and better handling than the 3.0. True. But it certainly has come with a cost.

[vh_supra26]

The 2.0 people were also hoping for a manual.

Chatter on the net was there were a number of big Toyota executives in North America that opposed the 2.0 B48 for our market. I believe because of the halo flagship image and the mindset of bigger is better. The 2.0 was mainly developed for markets with high gas prices, tougher emission standards, engine displacement tax etc. None of which really applies to us. However, since the U.S. failed to meet their 2019 sales goal it appears that the big heads in Japan force their hand. IMO, I think the lower than expect sales had more to do with dealer mark ups then anything. If Toyota was disappointed in 2019 3.0 sales, just wait and see how abysmal sales of a stripped down auto only $43k 2.0 Zupra will be.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

The 2.0 people were also hoping for a manual.

Gents, I get it, and I love MT cars too, but that ship has sailed. More people bought electric vehicles than manual transmission cars in 3Q of 2019, and it hasn't gotten better.

Guess where the manufacturers are going to put their development money?

[BA9092]

That's true. But I still wouldn't discount the possibility. Especially since just 6 months after the A90 was introduced, Toyota surprised us with 47hp, revised cylinder heads and exhaust manifold designs, suspension and steering tweaks. Who knows what they have up their sleeve for their (as promised) upcoming model year changes. Lol.

Manufacturers are taking two different approaches as well though. The new Veloster N is a manual, the GTI and Golf R are returning with a manual, they're still making the MX-5 in manual along with Mustang and Camaro. Not to mention the highly successful and often-marked-up manual-only Type-R. Also, Porsche said they're not giving up on the manual yet even though they only account for 20% of sales.

Yes, the manual is dying and electric cars are taking over. But that's still a very small number for either side:

"During 2019, battery-powered vehicles accounted for 1.6 percent of vehicles sold in the US, while manual transmissions accounted for just 1.1 percent. That means that EVs outsold stick shifts by nearly 50 percent."

While most people see the third pedal as nostalgic, the current infrastructure for electric cars is far from desirable.

[BA9092]

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Gents, I get it, and I love MT cars too, but that ship has sailed.

In one of Guff's latest vids he said Toyota and Tada is seriously considering a MT now. I also believe in several interviews Tada stated regarding test cars, both 2.0 and 3.0 Zupras have been fitted with a MT. Now if that shows up in show room floors is a different story. Its also worth noting the lower spec 2.0 EU Z4 also already comes with a MT.

[BA9092]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

In one of Guff's latest vids he said Toyota and Tada is seriously considering a MT now. I also believe in several interviews Tada stated regarding test cars, both 2.0 and 3.0 Zupras have been fitted with a MT. Now if that shows up in show room floors is a different story. Its also worth noting the lower spec 2.0 EU Z4 also already comes with a MT.

Agreed.

Plus, it would only be a bigger blow to Toyota if Nissan's next Z is offered in a manual.

I'm sure they're looking over their shoulders.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Gents, I get it, and I love MT cars too, but that ship has sailed. More people bought electric vehicles than manual transmission cars in 3Q of 2019, and it hasn't gotten better.

Guess where the manufacturers are going to put their development money?

And gents, I also get it, and I love sports cars too, but that ship has sailed. More people bought electric vehicles in 2019 than sports cars, and it hasn't gotten better.

https://www.statista.com/study/49991...t-sports-cars/

Ok, that was revenue and not actual car sales, but the point is if manufactures are going to omit the manual transmission then they should omit sports cars too, and some have, so if we are arguing the case for sports cars then it is just as reasonable to argue the case for the manual transmission. With that said, the other argument is that the manual transmission continues to make up a decent percentage of sports cars, even if it is most often not the majority.

Originally Posted by BA9092

Also, Porsche said they're not giving up on the manual yet even though they only account for 20% of sales.

The assumption is that buyers will settle for an automatic instead of jumping brands, but I would jump brands, and if it was the case that 20% jumped brands then taking a 20% hit in sales is a tough proposition. Eventually, buyers won't have the choice.

I agree that there is still a chance the Supra would get a manual, but I think the chances are super small, and it is even smaller now with the economy and COVID.

[gymratter]

[BA9092]

Originally Posted by gymratter

Lol. Uh, just another Supra review? Thanks, Matt, for nothing.

I usually like his reviews...but...

He mentions, on paper, that Toyota "totally reworked" the car with "so many necessary changes" for 2021. Really? What were so many complaints about? Nearly all professional drivers and auto journalists raved about the 2020. Then the 2021 comes out and they bash the 2020 with all the complaints all of a sudden. Lol. WTF?

Now, granted ingress and egress is always a bit challenging in a sports car...because, sports car! Lol. Either, don't buy a sports car, lose some weight or start a yoga routine. Lol. Jeez. It's a Supra, not an ES300.

Oh, and yes, the wind-buffeting issue is a nuisance. But there are over a handful of aftermarket remedies for that. Not a reason to avoid the car as other magazine journalists have mentioned.

He also mentioned all the changes on paper - chassis, dampers, eps, esc, e-diff and bumpstops. But I watched the entire video...TWICE...and he never mentioned that he actually noticed any differences between the 2020 and 2021 in spirited canyon driving. Hmmm. He even said he couldn't tell the difference in power from the previous car. Maybe a side-by-side track comparison may reveal the changes, but I consider Matt a good driver and auto journalist. If he didn't notice any of the changes in a spirited canyon road, do you think most Supra buyers will too?

I love how he also mentioned it's a good "in-between" car. To most people, the Supra is a dream car and not a stepping stone to an Italian exotic. That sounded a bit pompous to me. But when you've driven a GT3, many cars will be just "okay" by comparison. And since the mentioned them, the Boxster/Cayman starts in $60Ks, the Corvette (I'm assuming he was referring to the C8) starts in the $60Ks and $70Ks but he prefers a TTRS (which I love as well) which starts at $67K.

So in conclusion, I don't see how he can say that anyone who bought a 2020 model got hosed. There's nothing to back it up, especially since he didn't mention to note any changes while driving. Okay, maybe resale value. But that only hurts because of people swaying towards the 2021 because of 47hp. Ugh. Really? I think the only hurt Toyota caused was all the dealer markups last year.

I'll take a 2020 3.0 Premium with under 10k miles (from all those in line for a C8 or wanting to trade up to the 2021) for $43K than a 2021 3.0 Premium at MSRP.

Thanks for posting, @gymratter

[gymratter]

[DM7]

Originally Posted by BA9092

Lol. Uh, just another Supra review? Thanks, Matt, for nothing.

I usually like his reviews...but...

He mentions, on paper, that Toyota "totally reworked" the car with "so many necessary changes" for 2021. Really? What were so many complaints about? Nearly all professional drivers and auto journalists raved about the 2020. Then the 2021 comes out and they bash the 2020 with all the complaints all of a sudden. Lol. WTF?

Now, granted ingress and egress is always a bit challenging in a sports car...because, sports car! Lol. Either, don't buy a sports car, lose some weight or start a yoga routine. Lol. Jeez. It's a Supra, not an ES300.

Oh, and yes, the wind-buffeting issue is a nuisance. But there are over a handful of aftermarket remedies for that. Not a reason to avoid the car as other magazine journalists have mentioned.

He also mentioned all the changes on paper - chassis, dampers, eps, esc, e-diff and bumpstops. But I watched the entire video...TWICE...and he never mentioned that he actually noticed any differences between the 2020 and 2021 in spirited canyon driving. Hmmm. He even said he couldn't tell the difference in power from the previous car. Maybe a side-by-side track comparison may reveal the changes, but I consider Matt a good driver and auto journalist. If he didn't notice any of the changes in a spirited canyon road, do you think most Supra buyers will too?

I love how he also mentioned it's a good "in-between" car. To most people, the Supra is a dream car and not a stepping stone to an Italian exotic. That sounded a bit pompous to me. But when you've driven a GT3, many cars will be just "okay" by comparison. And since the mentioned them, the Boxster/Cayman starts in $60Ks, the Corvette (I'm assuming he was referring to the C8) starts in the $60Ks and $70Ks but he prefers a TTRS (which I love as well) which starts at $67K.

So in conclusion, I don't see how he can say that anyone who bought a 2020 model got hosed. There's nothing to back it up, especially since he didn't mention to note any changes while driving. Okay, maybe resale value. But that only hurts because of people swaying towards the 2021 because of 47hp. Ugh. Really? I think the only hurt Toyota caused was all the dealer markups last year.

I'll take a 2020 3.0 Premium with under 10k miles (from all those in line for a C8 or wanting to trade up to the 2021) for $43K than a 2021 3.0 Premium at MSRP.

Thanks for posting, @gymratter

Early 2020 Supra reviews were positive compared to reviews done later because a lot of the reviews were done at Toyota press launches. Toyota invites a bunch of journalists and reviewers to stay at a hotel, eat/drink and drive around a race track all day. This is a good way to win a few favourable reviews. The track that was used for the US press launch was really tight and technical which was well suited to a car that rotates. Some reviewers will also influence each others opinions. Each wave of reviews that come out will sound pretty similar.

Matt's reviews are aimed at an audience who care about how a car drives on the commute and on a Sunday cruise. When Matt talks about wind buffeting, ingress/egress, curb appeal, resale value, where the Supra belong in the sports car hierarchy; these are all valid points when you consider he's reviewing the Supra from a Los Angeles lifestyle perspective.

Only a small number of things Matt talks about actually matter to me. The Supra reviews from Savage Geese resonate with me much more.

[BA9092]

Originally Posted by DM7

Early 2020 Supra reviews were positive compared to reviews done later because a lot of the reviews were done at Toyota press launches. Toyota invites a bunch of journalists and reviewers to stay at a hotel, eat/drink and drive around a race track all day. This is a good way to win a few favourable reviews. The track that was used for the US press launch was really tight and technical which was well suited to a car that rotates. Some reviewers will also influence each others opinions. Each wave of reviews that come out will sound pretty similar.

Matt's reviews are aimed at an audience who care about how a car drives on the commute and on a Sunday cruise. When Matt talks about wind buffeting, ingress/egress, curb appeal, resale value, where the Supra belong in the sports car hierarchy; these are all valid points when you consider he's reviewing the Supra from a Los Angeles lifestyle perspective.

Only a small number of things Matt talks about actually matter to me. The Supra reviews from Savage Geese resonate with me much more.

Agreed. All valid points.

Yeah, I prefer Savage Geese as well.

I'm wondering if anyone here has actually driven the A90 and what their thoughts are from an 86/FRS/BRZ owner's perspective.