Targa top

[AnalogMan]

This is the Supra, but if this was done for the BRZ/86, I'd be the first one in line to buy one (regardless of whether it was the first or second gen car):

https://jalopnik.com/the-2021-gr-sup...-ne-1845929374

The world needs more removable roofs...

[DarkPira7e]

I had one of very few targa top kits ever made on my 3000GT VR4.
Believe me, it sucks to try and get the car structurally sound after having it done.
Stopping it from leaking, creaking, blegh.

[joro2]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

The world needs more removable roofs...

Would have liked simple manually* removable panels where each roof bubble is, which seemed structurally do-able as that section (either side of the center brace) on the unibody is I believe blank (and covered with a separate piece - e.g. like the carbon fiber option on the S209 STI models) .
*As if anyone does that in the 21st century, but a simple solution I miss from the old days. And of course w/o the creaks & leaks.

[Tokay444]

Having been in roll-over, I'll keep the roof where it belongs forever and always, unless there's a full cage option.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

I had one of very few targa top kits ever made on my 3000GT VR4.
Believe me, it sucks to try and get the car structurally sound after having it done.
Stopping it from leaking, creaking, blegh.

Yeah, it basically turns the car into a convertible, and needs all the usual structural reinforcements - which add weight and cost, and still don’t give the torsional rigidity of a fixed roof.

But it sure would be fun.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by joro2

Would have liked simple manually* removable panels where each roof bubble is, which seemed structurally do-able as that section (either side of the center brace) on the unibody is I believe blank (and covered with a separate piece - e.g. like the carbon fiber option on the S209 STI models) .
*As if anyone does that in the 21st century, but a simple solution I miss from the old days. And of course w/o the creaks & leaks.

Do you mean T-tops? T-tops (keeping a center bar) were all the rage in the 70’s and 80’s. I had a 1992 Nissan NX2000 with T-tops, and absolutely loved it!

It was a reasonable compromise design. It wasn’t as stiff as a fixed roof, there could still be some axial twisting, but it was better than cutting the entire roof out and seemed to nicely address longitudinal flexing.

Some people didn’t take them out that often, finding it a nuisance to have to remove two separate panels. I didn’t mind. Just a couple of minutes and it was a near-convertible experience, with the safety and security of a rigid top.

It’s been so long since any car has been offered with T-tops, probably 25 years. I suspect all the designers have long since forgotten about them, or written them off as obsolete. It would be a cool, gutsy move for someone to bring them back (cough cough, are you listening Subaru?), but the odds are probably even less than ever seeing a factory turbo.

[Willpower]

T-top was made up until at least the 2002 Camaro. They were great back in the day, and it was hard to beat an IROC Camaro with a t-top in the 80s. I know there’s a mullet stigma haha, but damn they were and still are great looking cars. Although structural rigidity took a hit with the removable roof panels.

The current Jeep Wranglers have their Freedom panels, which remind me very much of the old t-top, but there is no center bar, just interlocking twin panels. Love it on my Rubicon. Nostalgic.

[dpfarr]

What I would give for a late 80s 911 targa.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

I had one of very few targa top kits ever made on my 3000GT VR4.
Believe me, it sucks to try and get the car structurally sound after having it done.
Stopping it from leaking, creaking, blegh.

Yeah, I'm good with a proper hardtop roof. If you must, put a sunroof in. Or get a convertible. I'd actually prefer an MX-5 RF style fully retractable roof to a targa, it's got many of the same issues with potential leaks, creaks and rattles, but at least it is quick and easy to raise and lower the roof electronically. Manually fiddling around with a targa top is so 1990s.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

It’s been so long since any car has been offered with T-tops, probably 25 years. I suspect all the designers have long since forgotten about them, or written them off as obsolete.

I think the mechanical folding roof has largely replaced them.

[Willpower]

Originally Posted by Red-86

Yeah, I'm good with a proper hardtop roof. If you must, put a sunroof in. Or get a convertible. I'd actually prefer an MX-5 RF style fully retractable roof to a targa, it's got many of the same issues with potential leaks, creaks and rattles, but at least it is quick and easy to raise and lower the roof electronically. Manually fiddling around with a targa top is so 1990s.

The RF is a targa. It’s just a targa with mechanical actuation.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Willpower

The RF is a targa. It’s just a targa with mechanical actuation.

For me, "targa" implies a *fixed* hoop behind the driver/passenger, as on Porsche 911 Targa and Corvettes since 1984 (or 1968 if T-tops are considered a variation of "targa").
I had a '90 RX-7 convertible where you cold remove the roof panel by itself which gave a targa look, but I wouldn't call that or the Miata RF a targa.

But anyway, IMO targas and T-tops are a bad idea, at least for cars that aspire to be relatively lightweight and sporting... A fixed roof is an extremely mass-efficient way to get stiffness. Having a removable panel means you have to make up for the stiffness lost by beefing up the lower chassis of the car, which is much less efficient and adds mass.

Mazda should make a fixed-roof version of the Miata, which if properly done could *reduce* weight by 100 lb. instead of the RF, which *adds* 100 lb. Although they'd likely just take the increase in stiffness without subtracting structural mass anywhere, which should be roughly weight-neutral...

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Red-86

I think the mechanical folding roof has largely replaced them.

A mechanical folding roof like the Miata gives a full convertible experience, but is also much more complex, heavier, and expensive than T-tops. I can't imagine Subaru/Toyota doing that with this car.

I was trying to think of a way Subaru/Toyota could add some kind of quasi-open air experience to the BRZ/86 without needing major surgery (or expense) on the car. A targa top would be fun, but would need extensive structural reinforcements that might not be practical. T-tops would seem to need less.

At a minimum, how about a large removable sunroof, such as used to be available on the Porsche 924? I think that by leaving the perimeter roof channels intact, most of the structural integrity of the body is maintained. I don't think the sheetmetal in the middle contributes much. The entire panel could be lifted out and stored in the back (maybe even with some clips to attach it in the storage area). Something like this:

[Willpower]

Originally Posted by ZDan

For me, "targa" implies a *fixed* hoop behind the driver/passenger, as on Porsche 911 Targa and Corvettes since 1984 (or 1968 if T-tops are considered a variation of "targa").
I had a '90 RX-7 convertible where you cold remove the roof panel by itself which gave a targa look, but I wouldn't call that or the Miata RF a targa.

But anyway, IMO targas and T-tops are a bad idea, at least for cars that aspire to be relatively lightweight and sporting... A fixed roof is an extremely mass-efficient way to get stiffness. Having a removable panel means you have to make up for the stiffness lost by beefing up the lower chassis of the car, which is much less efficient and adds mass.

Mazda should make a fixed-roof version of the Miata, which if properly done could *reduce* weight by 100 lb. instead of the RF, which *adds* 100 lb. Although they'd likely just take the increase in stiffness without subtracting structural mass anywhere, which should be roughly weight-neutral...

I believe targas are referring to the entire overhead panel being open, and I think the RF is referred to in articles and literature as a targa, but I could be mistaken. Bad idea for structural rigidity for sure, but cool as heck for just cruising. Not as immersive an experience as a true convertible, but targas and t-top cars allow one to preserve the exterior aesthetics of a coupe while still being able to have a nice open air experience. IMO targas and t-top cars feel much more open air than sun roofs.