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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 07-11-2018, 08:41 PM   #1
dtbdan
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BRZ vs. BMW 430I Gran Coupe

This is going to be quite long so skip to the end if you just want the easy conclusion.
Over the past year I have had the privilege of using a 430i as my own vehicle, but recently (750 miles ago) I bought a 50th Anniversary BRZ. The way the two cars compare and which is better is both surprisingly close and easy (in my opinion) to decide. I will go over 5 areas and compare them, but a disclaimer is that I value driving dynamics over all else, a leather dashboard doesn't dazzle me and neither does a badge and also, all of this is just my opinion. Important options on both cars are as follows, BMW (M Sport Package, Navigation) BRZ (Performance Package, Limited)

Interior

BMW:
It's... okay. The seats are pretty uncomfortable, and even though I have a position saved I don't think I have ever sat in the same position for more than two hours. I am constantly adjusting the seat, and I have driven the car for over 11,000 miles. it is better in more recent BMW's but in the past I have felt like the seats where made of plastic and plywood under the material. The material on the seat is also just okay. I find that almost every other car I have been in has a better leather than the Dakota leather in the BMW, even fake leather cars, but also the leather in the BMW is durable, it doesn't really "break in" but it also doesn't rip easily or develop cracks easily. There is a real lack of ergonomics in design of the interior, such as the dashboard is pretty soft for a dashboard, but the armrest is the exact same softness/material. It gets very uncomfortable to rest my elbow on the door armrest for extended periods of time. The steering wheel is fabulous on the M Sport Package, I wish I could get it in absolutely everything, as are the gauges. Lastly iDrive is one of the best infotainment systems on the market, although with each update they seem to be taking away features, such as, non major roads on the map are only shown with a scale of 800ft and no farther out, works fine in NYC but not so much in rural NC. Around a year and half to two years ago, I would take iDrive over absolutely every other infotainment system, now it has real competition, although using the controller/buttons is a much more preferable way to do things than touch to me, I don't find myself getting annoyed by not having inputs responded to, or hitting the wrong button, or needed to spend actual time staring at the screen to find where to touch rather than being able to glance and just spin the controller.

BRZ:
Seats are fantastic so far, they are equally more supportive and more comfortable than the BMW's. The material is also better on the seats. Around the cabin there is a cheapness but I don't usually spend my time driving caressing the lower dash, do you? I actually value the simplicity of the cabin more than the BMW, as I enjoy trying to drive, not trying to figure out what button does what, and aesthetically I think its more pleasing to see only essential buttons, not frivolous things. I don't think there is a single button on the BMW I miss in the BRZ, besides a controller for the infotainment.

Build Quality

BMW:
11,000 miles and not a single squeak or rattle. I have had a number of other BMWs before this 430i (All various 2 series) that squeaked and rattled like a yugo, but recently BMW has gotten insanely better about that, everything fits together well, and there is that distinct German weight to the panels, such as the doors and hood. I have also tortured the trunk (it's electric and has the foot activated feature so every time I wash the rear of the car, it opens about 2-5 times) and it hasn't had an issue yet, even though it has been opened about an equivalent to someone owning the car for 40,000 miles.

BRZ:
Only 750 miles in I cannot speak to any great length on this, but nothing has gone wrong in any capacity, and everything fits together well, panel gaps are great, and I am yet to hear my first rattle, though I know it's coming at some point.

Practicality

BMW:
With the seats folded down the BMW has I would say similar space to a Tacoma or Colorado with a roof box. It really is astounding that this is how large a "Mid-size" car is now. I have had a TV, Golf clubs in a bag that was in the box, sound bar, clothes, and miscellaneous items and still been able to see mirrors and out the back with no problem. Normal visibility out of the car however is only so-so. It is really easy to lose things in the A-Pillar and visibility out the sides at non 90 degree angled intersections is lacking. Also the car extends out much farther to the sides than you can see, so on highways you sort of have to guess how close you really are to things.

BRZ:
I haven't had a serious move yet, but I moved into college in a 2 series convertible and still could see out the back and mirrors just fine. If you get creative and pack correctly it can be amazing how much stuff you can fit in a car. Visibility is fantastic for a modern car, I don't think there is a place that a human or car can hide where i cannot see them.

Sporty Driving Dynamics

BMW:
For a 3700lb "luxury" sedan, the 430i is surprisingly capable. If you really try to push it, it does fall apart but the tires it is currently on are all season run flats. Not the ideal tire for back roads, but it does handle better than it would seem on paper. The only issue comes from a lack of sensation of speed, 45 can feel like 25, so if you do not keep a close eye on the speedometer it can get into jail speeds quite quickly. The advertised figures are 248hp and 258 torque. BMW has a habit of advertising their figures at wheel horsepower not crank, so it is faster than you would think, but acceleration starting above 40 can feel quite lackluster if you are not above 4500-5000 rpm. The zf 8 speed is hands down the best automatic I think that is currently in production, I cannot fault it for anything other than the fact it is an automatic.

BRZ:
This is why you buy one of the twins. I have never had more fun in a car full stop. I remember driving an M4 on a track and I was smiling cause it was fun, but at 35 mph on the right road, the BRZ has no equal. It make you feel like an absolute hero but to the outside you are going slower than most cuvs would be going down that road. Mentally I knock the BMW because it is an automatic not a manual, and that isn't quite fair, but the combination in the BRZ is just almost perfection in my eyes. The HP is lacking, but I do think only a catted UEL and a tune are all that is needed to make it perfect. Anything more and the limits are raised to a point that are unobtainable on the street. As a track car, absolutely go for more everything, but there is always going to be a speed limit on a public road, and there is always a point that it can be unsafe at, no matter your driving skill. I have driven sedate German cars for all my life, that would absolutely destroy the BRZ on track, but none of them are even remotely as fun on public roads.

Comfort Driving Dynamics
BMW:
Again just sort of okay. It doesn't feel good going over bumps or cracks in the road. It always feels both too harsh on initially impact and overly upset by them. The suspension on the 430I is again hands down much better to the past BMWs I have driven, but it's still not comfortable. I would say my driving is 50/50 between highway and city, and I have done multiple 6-14 hour drives in the 4 series, and it does go down the road in relative isolation, but less than great pavement and it can feel uncomfortable. The mpg i can get with the fact it is a 3700lb sedan is astounding though. Going from Watkins Glen to central shoreline CT I averaged 37, but normally on the highway it gets around 32. this equates to around 400-450 miles easily from each tank on the highway, which can make central NC to south Florida a single gas stop trip if you fill up right before you leave. I do have to blame some of the harshness of ride on the run flats but certain circumstances prevent me from changing to regular tires, as well as the lack of space for a spare tire that isn't in the actual trunk space.

BRZ:
This is where it is surprising to me. Very surprising actually. I feel like the BRZ has a better ride quality than the BMW. I have only done about 150-200 miles of highway driving but it takes bumps much better. It does feel more stiff but in a good way. When I hit a bump, it takes it and then is done, it feels isolated to the wheel/corner that was affected, the whole car does not feel affected. It also has less chatter in terms of less than perfect pavement. On cracked pavement or repeated bumps the BMWs can start to feel uncontrolled in terms of body motion and feedback to your body. In the BRZ it again deals with it in a firm manner, where it does get affected and can hit a bump with force, but never uncontrolled or particularly harsh. I have said out loud, "Ow" in the BMW on bumps that I feel but am not hurt by in the BRZ. Also in terms of interior sound, with the windows up it sounds about equal to my ears. I have yet to have someone else in the car on the highway, but I listen to music at around the same volume levels and the interior ambiance sound level is around the same at 75mph, only real difference is that there is more engine noise in the BRZ than the BMW, but there is a 2000 rpm difference between where the BMW cruises at vs the BRZ. From what I have heard, as the Primacy HP's break in they will get louder, but if a tire change is all that's really needed to truly equalize the sound levels than I would call that a win for the BRZ. For example using a sound meter app on my phone, the BMW interior levels are at an average of 72db, the BRZ is at 73db.

Final Conclusions:

The MSRP on the BMW is around $53,000USD. The MSRP on the BRZ is around $31,000USD. I looked in the trunk, under the car, in the glovebox, and under the seats. I cannot find where that $22,000 goes. I can buy one of the BMW roundels for around $100, but there are so many of them on the car it is possible that's where it went. For both comfort and sporty driving I would rather be in the BRZ. Road trips or my favorite back road, it doesn't matter, I think i would rather be in the BRZ. Also at 25,000 miles I am not going to start having nagging issues and have to pay $130 an hour in labor to repair the BRZ, especially since everything but spark plugs and injectors seems pretty easy to get to and work on given enough time. The BMW doesn't even have a dipstick, they got rid of it in the mid 2000s for an electronic measurement. In all honesty, if you offered me an M4 or a BRZ for free with all maintenance taken car of for the life of the car, I would take the M4. But it would be a really tough decision, and that to me is crazy to think of as a possibility, that a BRZ can occupy the same level of enjoyment for me as a car that at base price, is over twice the base price of the BRZ. The simplicity of the BRZ has to be my favorite part though, it seems in order to capture customers, OEMs have been trying trying to scream who can fit the most tech into a car. That's great to dazzle someone at CES, but I would say a lot of car buyers and most sports car buyers want R&D money spent on the actual dynamics of a car, or the efficiency, or comfort, not gesture control or an "ALL DIGITAL DISPLAY!" Well butter me up, did you say ALL digital display?! I will now look past the fact this car is more complex and less comfortable than the last generation just so I can get something that is fun to play around with on a test drive or at a show, but absolutely useless for everyday needs. The BRZ doesn't try to convince me that it's a good car, it just is a good car. Finally, if you really think that the BRZ is under powered for STREET driving, you either don't really know how to enjoy a road, live in oklahoma on a 50 mile straight road, or you just enjoy going 2-3x the speed limit.

Last edited by dtbdan; 07-11-2018 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:00 PM   #2
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Old 08-14-2018, 12:21 PM   #3
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I appreciate the perspective. It gave me a new appreciation for stuff that's just so good you don't notice- like the seats. Sure, the sporty bolstering provides support and feedback during cornering, but I never thought of how comfortable they are- I recently moved cross-country and even after 6-7 hours a day in the car, I never once felt uncomfortable due to the seats.



My pa has newer 2- and 3-series BMWs and has said to me that he misses his FR-S (of course...)
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