Anyone not buying to avoid early issues like 1st gen FRS?

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by dnieves

In terms of waiting to purchase a second gen twin until the bugs get sorted out. Compared to Toyota/Subaru (mostly Toyota) I think that waiting would be more of a concern with Nissan's new Z and Chevrolet's mid engine Corvette (as both companies are known for their less than stellar quality control).

Well the Z is really more of a refresh with new skinning and a borrowed engine, that "new" TT engine has already proven its reliability in the Infiniti Q60, and the chassis and suspension are just revised versions of the 370Z's - so I doubt the first-year risk will be that high. Waiting to see if they fixed the existing CSC issue with the clutch though...

[Kona61]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Well the Z is really more of a refresh with new skinning and a borrowed engine, that "new" TT engine has already proven its reliability in the Infiniti Q60, and the chassis and suspension are just revised versions of the 370Z's - so I doubt the first-year risk will be that high. Waiting to see if they fixed the existing CSC issue with the clutch though...

IDK, I have not heard good things about the VR30. Oil consumption, turbo failures, belt failures, water pump failures. Not to mention the fact, they're damn near impossible to work on.

I used to have a 2007 350Z as a drift car, and it had so many stupid issues that I couldn't easily fix just because there was almost no space around the motor. Now, imagine the car having two turbos, all the associated plumbing for intercoolers and downpipes, and not to mention the fact it likely has more electronics due to being a newer engine. I simply cannot convince myself that the headache will be worthwhile.

[C4RBON]

I'm planning to wait. But I do see one of these in my future.
- There will be more discounts available after the first 1-2 yrs when demand dies down.
- First year cars are more likely to have issues, and I'll let other people deal with those.
- I want factory Brembo brakes.
- I'm not in love with any of the colors. I'm hoping for some new/special-edition colors to choose from in the future.
- I'm expecting more frequent updates to the twins this generation. Toyota has a strategy with the Supra to do more frequent updates to maintain demand, and I'm expecting that to carry-over for the twins as well.

All that being said, if something happens to my BRZ, I would not hesitate to get a second gen car right away. Or if nothing on the market is appealing to replace my GTI, I could see myself getting a new twin as a 3rd car.

[jflogerzi]

I think of this as an evolution. DS4 system is not new, the FA24 not new, most of the chassis, brakes, suspension is carry over... I think first years should be pretty reliable. Subie and Toyota know platform very well. First Gens are brand new mostly (new platform, DI, new engine... etc...)

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

I think of this as an evolution. DS4 system is not new, the FA24 not new, most of the chassis, brakes, suspension is carry over... I think first years should be pretty reliable. Subie and Toyota know platform very well. First Gens are brand new mostly (new platform, DI, new engine... etc...)

The FA24D is new.

Isn't there like only 10 percent of the design similar to the FA24T?

I will agree that its probably an evolution from the FA20D though, and shares the general outer casing and size as the FA24T.

I'm sure I saw something from Subaru about that. I'll try track it down.

EDIT: Sorry he (Takeki Kajikawa - head of Power Unit at Subaru) didnt say 10%, he said;

"The bore x stroke is the same as the FA24 turbo for Ascent, but the engine itself is a new design. It is not at the level of tuning without the turbo. There are almost no main parts shared with Ascent. Naturally aspirated We've optimized everything to make it a big-bore, high-revving engine. "

https://translate.google.com/transla.../article/1636/

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by Blighty

The FA24D is new.

Yep, it’s the only high revving, naturally aspirated version of this engine used at present. That doesn’t mean it will be bad… with luck it will prove a strong reliable engine… but we won’t know until thousands of cars have wracked up millions of combined km in all conditions. For this reason alone, if I was in the market for a gen 2 twin, I’d wait a year or two just to see how it goes and give time for any early issues to be addressed. But I respect early adopters too - someone has to buy the early cars to justify Toyota and Subaru keeping them in production.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Red-86

Yep, it’s the only high revving, naturally aspirated version of this engine used at present. That doesn’t mean it will be bad… with luck it will prove a strong reliable engine… but we won’t know until thousands of cars have wracked up millions of combined km in all conditions. For this reason alone, if I was in the market for a gen 2 twin, I’d wait a year or two just to see how it goes and give time for any early issues to be addressed. But I respect early adopters too - someone has to buy the early cars to justify Toyota and Subaru keeping them in production.

I think the early adopter experience is a lot simpler if you aren't modifying the car (performance wise).

Toyota and Subaru DO HAVE pretty good QA, its just a bit more hit and miss when it comes to how far past those parameters a car is going to go - and for a brand new model that is usually less than ideal.

However in theory its the same platform and even similar engine (D4S, BOXER FA), so even with a new design for the 2.4 liter you would imagine a big part of that redesign are reliability and performance improvements from the 2.0 litre NA.

[Blighty]

I tell you what I think WILL be issues from the first gen of GR86 cars.

LOTS of people BINNING IT INTO A WALL! Ahaha.

I mean seriously, there are some decent drivers we've seen on track immediately spinning out once traction control was off according to the videos out of japan!

I should start a poll with how many GR86 crashes we will see in the first year =D

[Opie]

What issues?

2013 BRZ track car....still on original engine, transmission, clutch, rear diff...

[Dadhawk]

If I were buying one, I'd have no issue purchasing a Year One car, but then I have a habit of doing that. But then, as @Blighty mentioned, I'm not a big modder either. If I want a modded version of a car I buy a different car up front, or buy a used car and go from there.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Blighty

I tell you what I think WILL be issues from the first gen of GR86 cars.

LOTS of people BINNING IT INTO A WALL! Ahaha.

I mean seriously, there are some decent drivers we've seen on track immediately spinning out once traction control was off according to the videos out of japan!

I should start a poll with how many GR86 crashes we will see in the first year =D

It is a minor increase in power and although certainly welcome it will not be sending them all careening into walls all of a sudden. You make it sound like they turned it into a Mustang or something.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Opie

What issues?

2013 BRZ track car....still on original engine, transmission, clutch, rear diff...

Like the vast majority of the 13s are. As usual they guys with issues make the most noise and appear to be the majority when in fact it is just a handful.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

If I were buying one, I'd have no issue purchasing a Year One car, but then I have a habit of doing that. But then, as @Blighty mentioned, I'm not a big modder either. If I want a modded version of a car I buy a different car up front, or buy a used car and go from there.

I kinda agree there. If you have to go past basic stuff like wheels/shocks/springs/catback/intake, you probably should have gotten a different car to begin with.

If I wanted 400 hp, I would just buy a Mustang, or a used turbo-6 BMW and throw a tune/intercooler on it and call it a day. A turbo 86 is cool, but not something I want to live with. This platform also needs a ton of work to actually put the power down, it’s designed to not grip. Other cars put it down to the ground much better out of the box.

All that combined makes my personal concerns about boosting an FA pretty nonexistent.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Like the vast majority of the 13s are. As usual they guys with issues make the most noise and appear to be the majority when in fact it is just a handful.

Tcoat, you don’t even know what you’re talking about. My taillights had actual H2O in them before I replaced the $10 gaskets, and my throwout bearing actually had to be replaced when I did the clutch. 13s are junk.

Edit: /s just in case someone though I’m being serious

Edit2: Seriously the vast majority of 13s are fine. Most issues are extremely minor. I’d say the throwout bearing was the worst of it and mine lasted up until the point where I wanted to change the clutch anyway. Most mechanical problems are severely exacerbated by heavy engine modifications, like I doubt many stock 2013s suffer from blowing coil packs regularly, Even though they still updated the main engine wiring harness in 2015 to fix that. And yes they did reduce the indexing feature on the side windows so that the weatherstripping on the doors would last longer. So I replaced my door seal when it started looking a bit squished in 2019. It was still holding water just fine, I probably could’ve left it alone.

All in all, for the relatively minor inconveniences of replacing a sub $100 part maybe once a year, I wouldn’t think twice about buying another 2013. Sample size of 1, I know, but my 13 treated me right.