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Old 08-14-2016, 08:06 PM   #547
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Originally Posted by Tor View Post
Doh yes of course it would be OL. What a brain fart. Thanks.

So rather its rich in CL, hence the negative trim. Which is then applied in OL causing it to be lean? Would that be the right way to think of it?
I'd say yes. I'm sure there is a little bit more to it than that, but that is the basic jist of it.

I went ahead and took a log similar to yours for your reference.

Here's what the fuel trims look like on my car at part throttle in 5th gear. You will see it in CL operation under 4200rpms that STFT still active as Kodename47 was saying, then switches to OL operation once it revs past 4200rpms.

http://datazap.me/u/solidone/z7-olcl...0-352&mark=273

You'll notice that at the point where "fuel system status" switches from 2 to 4, the MAF voltage is around 2.8v. This is the area where you want to try to get your fuel trims as minimal as possible (as steve99 and wayno aluded to earlier). Keeping this area as accurate as possible in terms of fuel trims will help keep the fuel trims in OL operation nice and low. Now, this is probably a simplified explination of how the computer determins how much LTFT is applied in OL, but its a effective way to go about keeping the LTFT's stable in OL.

Here's a WOT pull to redline in 4th gear in the same log: http://datazap.me/u/solidone/z7-olcl...2078&mark=1879

If you look at my "commanded AFR" relative to the "AFR" it follows eachother fairly closely with "AFR" being a few points richer than "Commanded AFR" through almost the eintire way to redline. This tells me that my MAF scale is relatively "accurate" and actual AFR's are very close to what is being targeted in my OL fuel map.

I'm not sure whether you set your OL fueling table to run as rich as 10.5:1 (10.8 commanded AFR), or there is something off with how your logging device is set up. From the shape of your MAF voltages in your log im sure its a stg 1 or 2 NA setup but your OL fuel target past 6200rpm looks to be way rich for some reason, which is why I'm questioning your set up and tune.

http://datazap.me/u/tor/stock-a00g-m...2671-2776-2802
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Old 08-15-2016, 12:20 PM   #548
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Originally Posted by solidONE View Post
http://datazap.me/u/tor/stock-a00g-m...2813&mark=2671

Looking at this pull in your log, your commanded AFR and AFR reading also look pretty strange. Towards redline the Commanded AFR goes as rich as 10.8:1 while the AFRs only goes up to 12.13:1 even with +5% LTFT. This tells me your maf scale is quite a bit off. Are you running FI or NA? What are you using to flash your rom and for data logging?
That log is the stock A00G tune at 34 degs C, with 30.000 km of learning.
I'm sorry for the confusion, I included it to ask the following question:

Quote:
So after 2 tries, I ended up with this below. I think it looks pretty good but would greatly appreciate if someone would take a look at it:

Closeup:
http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-104-pull...5&zoom=554-682
With LTFT:
http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-104-pull...5&zoom=550-688

My car has the shifts in fuel trims at 5000 rpm with every tune I flashed (including stock http://datazap.me/u/tor/stock-a00g-m...7&zoom=517-651 <---- stock A00G before flashing ).

Is it worth (and possible) getting rid of? I suppose that has to do with the injectors?
So that log can be disregarded. Come to think of it, it could be entirely worthless as it is logged with the logfile.txt for A01G tune (I assumed it was A01G when I did the logs).

Otherwise, I am NA, completely stock except drop-in K&N air filter. I log and flash with Tactrix.

The actual current log is this one:
http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-104-pull...5&zoom=550-688


Thanks for all the other information you provided.
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Old 08-15-2016, 06:29 PM   #549
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That log is the stock A00G tune at 34 degs C, with 30.000 km of learning.
I'm sorry for the confusion, I included it to ask the following question:



So that log can be disregarded. Come to think of it, it could be entirely worthless as it is logged with the logfile.txt for A01G tune (I assumed it was A01G when I did the logs).

Otherwise, I am NA, completely stock except drop-in K&N air filter. I log and flash with Tactrix.

The actual current log is this one:
http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-104-pull...5&zoom=550-688


Thanks for all the other information you provided.
NP hopefully that helps you understand what you should try to do going forward with the MAF scaling.

I must have missed that... lol I suppose that would explain the Commanded AFR and AFR looking the way it does.

Have you tried to click on your link to see if it works? It does not seem to be loading for me. Or maybe its set to private?
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Old 08-15-2016, 10:59 PM   #550
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Have you tried to click on your link to see if it works? It does not seem to be loading for me. Or maybe its set to private?
It should work, probably go messed up from the quoting.

Here it is again, freshly copy/pasted:
http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-104-pull...5&zoom=550-688
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Old 08-16-2016, 01:18 AM   #551
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It should work, probably go messed up from the quoting.

Here it is again, freshly copy/pasted:
http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-104-pull...5&zoom=550-688
It's looking pretty good, though I don't like the area from 4K~5K where the LTFT is -1% and the AFR are a few points leaner than requested in OL. AFR is still about 12.5 and free of knock corrections. Past 5K you are getting 2.3% LTFT yet it's right on line with commanded AFR for the most part, though AFR are still right around 12.0 were you want it.

There is a bit of FBKC at tip in @ low RPMs and a tiny bit of FLKC at the top end. Not a big deal.

http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-104-pull...54-557-676-685

If it were my own car I'd sped a bit more time dialing the MAF scale, but only after I do a lot more logging. Then again, I'm pretty OCD with my stuff. You should be fine running it the way it is right now.
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Old 08-16-2016, 03:33 PM   #552
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It's looking pretty good, though I don't like the area from 4K~5K where the LTFT is -1% and the AFR are a few points leaner than requested in OL. AFR is still about 12.5 and free of knock corrections. Past 5K you are getting 2.3% LTFT yet it's right on line with commanded AFR for the most part, though AFR are still right around 12.0 were you want it.

There is a bit of FBKC at tip in @ low RPMs and a tiny bit of FLKC at the top end. Not a big deal.

http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-104-pull...54-557-676-685

If it were my own car I'd sped a bit more time dialing the MAF scale, but only after I do a lot more logging. Then again, I'm pretty OCD with my stuff. You should be fine running it the way it is right now.
Thanks for taking a look. I will fiddle a bit more with it for the fun of it. Maybe I did myself a disfavour with trying to scale it? Before it looked like this (Wayno's scale) and didn't have FLKC at the top end. Would that be because it was running richer? Or is that just pure coincidence?

http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-102-2?lo...zoom=2347-2457
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Old 08-16-2016, 05:41 PM   #553
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Thanks for taking a look. I will fiddle a bit more with it for the fun of it. Maybe I did myself a disfavour with trying to scale it? Before it looked like this (Wayno's scale) and didn't have FLKC at the top end. Would that be because it was running richer? Or is that just pure coincidence?

http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-102-2?lo...zoom=2347-2457
I'm sure the operating temps have a lot to do with the knock corrections nothing to do with MAF scale or resultant AFRs. The amount of KC is very minor though.

with minor knock correction IAT@28*C, OIL @91*C:
http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-104-pull...54-557-676-685

W/O KC IAT @17*C, OIL @79*C:
http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-102-2?lo...zoom=2347-2457
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Old 08-16-2016, 05:57 PM   #554
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I'm sure the operating temps have a lot to do with the knock corrections nothing to do with MAF scale or resultant AFRs. The amount of KC is very minor though.

with minor knock correction IAT@28*C, OIL @91*C:
http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-104-pull...54-557-676-685

W/O KC IAT @17*C, OIL @79*C:
http://datazap.me/u/tor/tor-102-2?lo...zoom=2347-2457
Oh yes of course another variable. I hope I can go to the track tomorrow, and I will make a log at real operating temperature. Probably the result won't be pretty when oil hit 115 degs C (with oil cooler).
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Old 09-03-2016, 10:56 AM   #555
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Trying to refresh my memory since I haven't been on the forum a long time. I did some pulls today in Germany to correct my LTFT with different climate, temperature, and altitude, and of course fuel at 98 RON. My LTFT is kicking +9.37 while in close loop. Open loop its at -0.25 LTFT going WOT. I did 3rd gear at 2500 rpms for about 5 to 10 secs before I went WOT to 7200 RPMS to stop logging. 4th gear seems slow to do it at 2500 rpm. If anyone wants to correct me feel free to do so.

Last edited by efactor84; 09-03-2016 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 09-03-2016, 03:04 PM   #556
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Trying to refresh my memory since I haven't been on the forum a long time. I did some pulls today in Germany to correct my LTFT with different climate, temperature, and altitude, and of course fuel at 98 RON. My LTFT is kicking +9.37 while in close loop. Open loop its at -0.25 LTFT going WOT. I did 3rd gear at 2500 rpms for about 5 to 10 secs before I went WOT to 7200 RPMS to stop logging. 4th gear seems slow to do it at 2500 rpm. If anyone wants to correct me feel free to do so.

the VGI maf scaling utility needs 3 full throttle runs from 2000-redline preferably 3rd gear but 2nd will do if no safe place for 3rd, this is for open loop scaling.


For closed loop you need about 15 minutes or more of cruising , steady or light slow throttle movement driving at varing speeds and rpm. You can do some light steady throttle runs up the rpm range to about 5000 to help get some closed loop info at the higher rpm


their is more help in the vgi utility. linked in first post
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Old 01-10-2017, 06:40 PM   #557
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Looked up the MAF sensor part number on amazon, and the price ranged from $25 to $250. Why?
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Old 02-20-2017, 09:13 PM   #558
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Firstly let me thank you all for the great information it has been a great guide while I work to getting my MAF scaling down to the gnats ass. I have made progress on my CL MAF scaling to the point where LTFT sits right at zero while at a cruise. I still see my LTFT up above 8% either while I am at fuel status 4 or while at idle. The OL LTFT is not my primary worry as I have yet to start data logging for that, I am more concerned about it being that high during engine idle. Is a LTFT above 8% normal during idle or is this something I should be concerned about (i.e. Vacuum Leak)? Posting a link to my last data log:
http://www.datazap.me/u/unashamedner...=0&data=1-9-13
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Old 02-20-2017, 09:53 PM   #559
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Firstly let me thank you all for the great information it has been a great guide while I work to getting my MAF scaling down to the gnats ass. I have made progress on my CL MAF scaling to the point where LTFT sits right at zero while at a cruise. I still see my LTFT up above 8% either while I am at fuel status 4 or while at idle. The OL LTFT is not my primary worry as I have yet to start data logging for that, I am more concerned about it being that high during engine idle. Is a LTFT above 8% normal during idle or is this something I should be concerned about (i.e. Vacuum Leak)? Posting a link to my last data log:
http://www.datazap.me/u/unashamedner...=0&data=1-9-13

At idle their are large changes in intake air temps, this tends to make the ltft at idle and low rpm move arroind a bit more than the lftf higher in the flow bands.

dont worry too much about the ltft at idle, its nice if you can get it below 5 but not rearly necessary anything belpw about 10 is fine at idle unless your hetting hesitation or something.

Get e higher flow ltft low especially arroind 60g\s which is about 3.2 v this is the last flow band and determines the ltft correction to the ol maf scaling above 3.2 v.

Try to get that idle ltft low at the average temps in your area for me thats about iat 25C, its going to vary a bit if your iat get to -50c or 0c.

sometimes you have to just manually adjist the scale at the idle rpm flow rates jist try to keep the cureve smooth

if its +8% at 2g\s say then add say 8% to that cell and mabe 4% to adjacent cells
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:50 PM   #560
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Okay I need some extra eye's on this. I have done the CL and OL scaling, I have also smoothed the results from vgi's tool. I did a bit of an evening drive to see how it looks and I think it looks much better. Although I am a rank amateur and would appreciate outside opinions.

http://www.datazap.me/u/unashamedner...=1-3-7-9-12-13
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