The Goal vs Porche 718 S turbo Boxer

[r_rated]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Blah, the fact that you can hop in a brand new 86, spend <$500 on brakes and go beat on it just replacing consumables for half the price across the board of a 2017 P-car is incredible. IMO that still makes it a 'track monster'.

The rotors will warp after a single track day - not to mention engine/oil cooling. The car is built to be a fun street car and does that very well. It just isn't engineered to hold up on a track.

For the cost of a new BRZ you can easily get into a used Cayman or Boxster. If you're comparing a new BRZ cost then the ownership cost comes into consideration and residuals after a year or 2 make it more expensive to own.

[brzaapi]

I think a lot of these comments have some validity, and they are all skewed to that posters individual experiences and preferences.

You don't need to spend a lot of money to have fun tracking a car. And with a few items replaced, the BRZ is track worthy. A great little tool, and fun. Is it a Porsche, no.....but who cars. I whooped on P-cars in my older NA BRZ all the time. Does not mean that its a better car. But I am leanring and having fun at a much lower price point, at my current level of ability.

I, right now prefer a BRZ over the Cayman. Wolfpack, I am sure is enjoying his 987. It depends on you, the driver to find what you enjoy. But, hell if you want to track at a low price point and have a lot of fun. Go to racingjunk.com and get into a legends car with spares and trailer for like 8 to 10 grand. NO Street car is the cheapest way to get track time. But, a BRZ is a good option.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by r_rated

The rotors will warp after a single track day - not to mention engine/oil cooling. The car is built to be a fun street car and does that very well. It just isn't engineered to hold up on a track.

For the cost of a new BRZ you can easily get into a used Cayman or Boxster. If you're comparing a new BRZ cost then the ownership cost comes into consideration and residuals after a year or 2 make it more expensive to own.

Rotors don't warp anymore, uneven pad deposits are usually what people feel. Did you really warp the rotors on an 86? You had them measured? Most people get >4 track days out of their OE-spec 86 rotors, I'm a nub so my data isn't too relevant but 60k miles, 5 track days and three seasons of autox and the rotors still have life on 'em, I was using Carbotech XP10's.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94608

I'll concede on an oil cooler, but that's still a minor cost that still keeps a track prepped 86 at <1/2 the price of a new P-car. These are relatively minor modifications to track prep a car.

Used vs. new was not part of my assessment, neither was residual value after tracking a car. Common advice is to be financially able to walk away from a tracked car as a total loss. Consumable costs are comparable if not a bit in the 86's favor vs. an old Boxster/Cayman, but then you're looking at maintenance on a >10 year old track/street car vs. <5 year old track/street car.

The 86 is a bargain to put a new(-ish) car on track, the only other thing that comes close is a Miata.



Edit: I don't begrudge your opinion, yes the 86 needs modification to hit the track and drive it at 10/10ths. However, stating that the OE 86 rotors will 'warp' after one track day is contradictory to almost everybody's experience, and I take issue with falsehoods.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by r_rated

The rotors will warp after a single track day - not to mention engine/oil cooling. The car is built to be a fun street car and does that very well. It just isn't engineered to hold up on a track.

You don't know what you are talking about.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Blah, the fact that you can hop in a brand new 86, spend <$500 on brakes and go beat on it just replacing consumables for half the price across the board of a 2017 P-car is incredible. IMO that still makes it a 'track monster'.

Originally Posted by brzaapi

I think a lot of these comments have some validity, and they are all skewed to that posters individual experiences and preferences.

You don't need to spend a lot of money to have fun tracking a car. And with a few items replaced, the BRZ is track worthy. A great little tool, and fun. Is it a Porsche, no.....but who cars. I whooped on P-cars in my older NA BRZ all the time. Does not mean that its a better car. But I am leanring and having fun at a much lower price point, at my current level of ability.

I, right now prefer a BRZ over the Cayman. Wolfpack, I am sure is enjoying his 987. It depends on you, the driver to find what you enjoy. But, hell if you want to track at a low price point and have a lot of fun. Go to racingjunk.com and get into a legends car with spares and trailer for like 8 to 10 grand. NO Street car is the cheapest way to get track time. But, a BRZ is a good option.

The track pads for my Cayman (Pagid Yellows) only cost about $50 (total) more than the track pads for my BRZ (CarboTech). And they last considerably longer, thanks to caliper design, more rear weight bias, and ducted brake cooling (on the fronts).

Truth be told, if I hadn't crashed my BRZ I would probably still be driving her. But when I crashed I was not in a financial position to buy another BRZ AND THEN boost it again. Was easier to go the Porsche route. Do I enjoy driving the Porsche more? Yes, it's an amazing vehicle with incredible handling and a silky smooth engine that sounds magnificent when driven in anger. However I do miss the BRZ. Newer car with newer features. Even boosted, still cheaper to operate and for the power levels I'm happy with would still be reliable on track. If Subaru offered a more powerful BRZ from the factory there's a good chance I'd own it now or in the near future.

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

and a silky smooth engine that sounds magnificent when driven in anger.

This is true. Just feels like a true sports car. Nothing like hearing the engine right behind you getting pissed off. I do miss that.

We replaced the top cover and insulation with the sealed plexiglass cover. Man, if you like the engine sounds. That cover lets you enjoy it in all its glory. And, it doesn't let in dirt or smell at all. Just the great soundtrack of the engine.

Damn, see now I want a Cayman again.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

The track pads for my Cayman (Pagid Yellows) only cost about $50 (total) more than the track pads for my BRZ (CarboTech). And they last considerably longer, thanks to caliper design, more rear weight bias, and ducted brake cooling (on the fronts).

That's pretty great, I love hearing about running costs on other cars.

While the brakes may be cheaper overall, you're still eating a ton of money on tires right? Quick look at RS-4's and you're at >$200 more per set (depending on tires chosen for the 86).

[WolfpackS2k]

Oh yeah, tire cost is way more. I use Michelin Pilot Super Sports and they're not cheap. Rear tires were pretty worn when I got the car so those were replaced 2 1/2 years ago for around $700. Fronts wore out about 10 months ago and were replaced for around $500. They seem to last a pretty long time though, but I haven't been to the track much at all (much to my chagrin).

Would go with Dunlop Direzza Star Spec ZII's but they don't make them in my size

[nikitopo]

I saw yesterday a 718 S and measured the wheel gap. The gap is very small for real street performance. They should provide this car with adjustable height suspension.

[Agent 86]

As the former owner of a 2014 BRZ and current owner of a 718 Cayman S, I will say that a BRZ/FRS is a low cost alternative to the 981/982 Porsche. I loved my BRZ (even more than my 2013 Golf R). The twins are very capable and fun to drive cars.

[Agent 86]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I saw yesterday a 718 S and measured the wheel gap. The gap is very small for real street performance. They should provide this car with adjustable height suspension.

718 Cayman/Boxster have the choice of either standard suspension or PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management) which is 20mm lower than standard.

My car does not have PASM and sits roughly 2.5" above the 20" wheels/tires.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I saw yesterday a 718 S and measured the wheel gap. The gap is very small for real street performance. They should provide this car with adjustable height suspension.

i dont think wheel gap has any correlation to street performance.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i dont think wheel gap has any correlation to street performance.

It depends the road. If you have good pavement quality, then it is fine. In some countries the road quality is bad and you have many potholes. In such situations if the suspension is loaded, you might have sudden bounces which is very dangerous. The whole car will get un-settled and you can also have an accident.


Is it possible to change the suspension height with PASM?

[Bfranklyn86]

Originally Posted by Agent 86

As the former owner of a 2014 BRZ and current owner of a 718 Cayman S, I will say that a BRZ/FRS is a low cost alternative to the 981/982 Porsche. I loved my BRZ (even more than my 2013 Golf R). The twins are very capable and fun to drive cars.

I think boosted BRZ vs 981/982 Cayman is the debate we should be having. The 718 seems to be in a different league to be honest.