'Glued' Spoiler experiences

[x808drifter]

Sikaflex®-227 is a 1-component polyurethane sealant designed for car body sealing.

GLHF

[Sam86]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

I would imagine the glue won't hold well; it needs a padding layer between to be sure vibrations are being managed. Glue is a bad idea

For general glue sure but the specific glue I used is intended for automotive panel bonding, it's also an elastomer and considering the name 'sikaFLEX' I believe it'll account for those vibrations

[Sam86]

Originally Posted by sharpsicle

I think it says something when OEM manufacturers use adhesive tapes rather than glue on their own components. I'd do the same. Not to mention adhesive tape is reversible, glue typically is not without causing some damage.

But is the 3m not typically in conjunction with bolts and acting more as a sealant than the primary bonding tool?
I know when I took my stock wing off whatever adhesive tape had been used by OEM had lost almost all of its adhesion and it was really only the bolts that was keeping the wing in place.

Also I'm fairly sure OEM addons like spoilers are designed to be removeable which is why they wouldn't use glue since it's more permanent

[Sam86]

Originally Posted by ls1ac

Did you notice that they left the 3m tape around the edges then put the glue inside where the tape was.

EDIT There is a 3m emblem glue

My wing didn't come with any 3m tape attached or in the box. The only installation tool I was provided was an unbranded tube of sikaflex light substance.

That being said I didn't used that unbranded stuff I went and bought the actual sikaflex

[Sam86]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Also as Dark said the glue will be stiff and not take well to vibration. There will be loads of fun had when extreme daily temperature swings start to happen and the two different materials expand and contract at totally different rates!

It's an automotive elastomer and has rated service temperatures within -50 to 90 C. Also I don't live in an area with extreme weather climates, eg doesn't snow

[Sam86]

I agree that general purpose glues aren't going to work well but what I used is the same as what others have used and had no problems even when tracking the car. The main adhesives i've seen people use is Sikaflex, Tigerseal and 3M Urethane windshield adhesive.


Idk what's with all the tape responses, I just wanted experiences from others who glued theirs too. I'm not the only person who has done this, I only decided to use this stuff over 3m because searching online, a large consensus was that for duckbill spoilers, adhesives like sikaflex is the best for mostly permanent fittings- and I saw more than 1 comment from people saying they used 3m and after a year or two their spoiler fell off. The reason people choose to use these kind of adhesives is because it gives the cleanest possible fitment

[Sam86]

Originally Posted by wheelhaus

Some glues (commercially called adhesives) can be unbelievably strong, flexible, and incredibly resilient to temperature, chemical, and environmental conditions. They however typically require removal of the painted surface and proper prep of the surfaces as well as chemical compatibility to the substrates being bonded. They typically have tolerance enough to fill small-moderate gaps in the bond-line (space between the substrates) and when done correctly, leave no (or minimal) air entrapment. They are permanent af.

I wouldn't trust some random off the shelf "glue" to hold on a wing/lip etc., or, well, anything for that matter... It would need to be an industrial grade 2-part adhesive with properties designed for the application and just as important, the prep process to be performed to a T.

3M's acrylic-based VHB adhesive tapes (very high bond) are probably the best double sided tapes in the world, and still there's a few dozen variations depending on application. Again, surface prep is very important, but typically doesn't require any damage to the finish to do so.

A thin bead/fillet of sealant just inside the tape line, or in gaps, or just outside the tape line would be a good idea to prevent water ingress if the tape can't be applied consistently for some reason.

Source- I work with aviation and aerospace composites.

tl:dr-
For this application, I'd say just stick with high quality 3M tapes and very clean surfaces and make sure the pieces of tape are butted snugly together to keep it water tight.

I agree with what you're saying however in my case I didn't use a random off the shelf glue (assuming you're referring to what I used) I believe it is an primarily an industrial glue, they just also supply it commercially. I researched what others used and the most common adhesive I saw others use was Sikaflex which is what I got. It states that it bonds with paint coatings and other general bodyshop materials.
It didn't state I had to do any paint removal/ sanding.

Here's a product link to the exact adhesive I used
https://industry.sika.com/en/home/au...aflex-227.html

[sharpsicle]

So @Sam86 if you didn't like the information everyone here provided, what was the answer you were wanting to hear? Lots of great information was given on why it might not be a great idea to glue it down and what the alternatives would be.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Sam86

Idk what's with all the tape responses, I just wanted experiences from others who glued theirs too. I'm not the only person who has done this, I only decided to use this stuff over 3m because searching online, a large consensus was that for duckbill spoilers, adhesives like sikaflex is the best for mostly permanent fittings- and I saw more than 1 comment from people saying they used 3m and after a year or two their spoiler fell off. The reason people choose to use these kind of adhesives is because it gives the cleanest possible fitment

Maybe the reason you are getting an overwhelming majority that use adhesive tape and not glue is telling what you need to know. If you want to use glue, then use it. Sounds like you are just seeking approval and confirmation you did it right.

How do you know the guys that had a spoiler fall off prepped it properly, or did not get knock off 3m tape which I see quite a bit of. I also notice a lot of the adhesive tape backed parts do not come with adhesion promotor which I would highly recommend.

https://www.amazon.com/3M-4298-Adhes.../dp/B004TGJU2A

[Sam86]

Originally Posted by sharpsicle

So @Sam86 if you didn't like the information everyone here provided, what was the answer you were wanting to hear? Lots of great information was given on why it might not be a great idea to glue it down and what the alternatives would be.

????
I never asked for opinions on whether glue is better than 3m I asked for the the EXPERIENCES of people who GLUED to share how well it held up. Why would I be asking for alternative recommendations when I already stated that I had attached the wing to my car and it was currently curing? And with what you said earlier, do you have any examples of OEM manufacturers that use ONLY 3m to attach a factory spoiler? That means no bolts in conjunction with the 3m. I’m actually genuinely curious of that

Sorry if I’m taking out on you but it’s annoying that nobody commenting even read my OP let alone title as nowhere in my OP did I ask for recommendations on what to use or ask whether glue is better than 3m. Yes for most people 3M is probably a more ideal choice since it’s reversible however I wanted something permanent that I didn’t have to worry about. As far as I’m concerned 3m + bolting down is the best way to go, however WITHOUT Bolts I didn’t feel like 3m would last as long as adhesive sealant. And when I talk longterm I’m talking 4-5+ years not a few months to one year

All I was asking for was for others who did the same as me to tell me how theirs held up and whether I did it right IE applied the adhesive correctly

[Grady]

Originally Posted by Sam86

it’s annoying that nobody commenting even read my OP let alone title as nowhere in my OP did I ask for recommendations on what to use or ask whether glue is better than 3m.

Is this your first internet post?

Anyway to answer your question, BRZ’s are better, and yes you should turbo it!

[wheelhaus]

Originally Posted by Sam86

I agree with what you're saying however in my case I didn't use a random off the shelf glue (assuming you're referring to what I used) I believe it is an primarily an industrial glue, they just also supply it commercially. I researched what others used and the most common adhesive I saw others use was Sikaflex which is what I got. It states that it bonds with paint coatings and other general bodyshop materials.
It didn't state I had to do any paint removal/ sanding.

Here's a product link to the exact adhesive I used
https://industry.sika.com/en/home/au...aflex-227.html

I was just stating the term "glue" is vague, that's all.

I understand a bit better what you're saying, just understand the resistance you're experiencing is because its rather uncommon to do it that way. Asking for validation of uncommon practices on the internet when there's well established methods will always be met with scrutiny, so no surprises there...

Ultimately if it works well then its another tool in our collective belt, but not enough existing experience to validate it outright.

My only question for that product is that its listed/marketed as a sealant, not an adhesive. Sealants can bond extremely well to substrates, but can suffer from cohesive failure (the material itself tears apart but its still bonded to each substrate) more easily than structural-rated adhesives.

Structures are loaded in tensile (pulling), Shear (sliding), and peeling (like pulling tape). Sealants don't typically have high peel strength (hell some adhesive's don't either) and that is the type of loading that a wing/lip/duckbill will see around the edges, mixed with some tensile strength as the front edge wants to be pulled up. Silkaflex 227's 'tear propogation resistance" sounds a lot like peel strength... 6N is only 1.35lbs of force, which isn't a lot, so that's my only concern. Once it's completely cured keep a close eye on the front edge and corners for any cracking/tearing. If you see nothing after months of use at highway/track speeds and hot sun heat cycling, then I'd say you're golden and just check it periodically.

[Sam86]

Originally Posted by wheelhaus

I was just stating the term "glue" is vague, that's all.

I understand a bit better what you're saying, just understand the resistance you're experiencing is because its rather uncommon to do it that way. Asking for validation of uncommon practices on the internet when there's well established methods will always be met with scrutiny, so no surprises there...

Ultimately if it works well then its another tool in our collective belt, but not enough existing experience to validate it outright.

My only question for that product is that its listed/marketed as a sealant, not an adhesive. Sealants can bond extremely well to substrates, but can suffer from cohesive failure (the material itself tears apart but its still bonded to each substrate) more easily than structural-rated adhesives.

Structures are loaded in tensile (pulling), Shear (sliding), and peeling (like pulling tape). Sealants don't typically have high peel strength (hell some adhesive's don't either) and that is the type of loading that a wing/lip/duckbill will see around the edges, mixed with some tensile strength as the front edge wants to be pulled up. Silkaflex 227's 'tear propogation resistance" sounds a lot like peel strength... 6N is only 1.35lbs of force, which isn't a lot, so that's my only concern. Once it's completely cured keep a close eye on the front edge and corners for any cracking/tearing. If you see nothing after months of use at highway/track speeds and hot sun heat cycling, then I'd say you're golden and just check it periodically.

Thank you.

In regards to its adhesive properties, to quote what is says on the back of the tube it is "suitable for making permanent elastic seals of high adhesive strength".
Its been 10 days now, certainly not long enough to be certain but its been both hot, cold and rainy in that time. I daily drive the car, open and close the boot regularly and so far it has held up. The main test was when I had my car polished yesterday in hot weather. I didn't tell the guy my spoiler was glued on and he spent a fair bit of time and used a fair bit of force when polishing and drying it which didn't cause it to budge. (And he definitely wasn't being gentle as he broke one of my fuel cap clips from using too much force).

If I wiggle the spoiler or use a bit of force on it, it doesn't budge or feel like it's going to come off. If anything the spoiler itself feels like it would snap since it's just hollow ABS plastic

[sharpsicle]

Sounds like you're good to go.

We won't be able to tell you the long-term, only time will tell.