Will I be happy with the 86/BRZ?

[HKz]

Originally Posted by Doubletap

Please don't obfuscate my post. I didn't post the numbers to find some sort of "meaning" or how important they are to the driver, to the car, or life in general.

Please read what I responded to. I posted them to refute the point that the Honda 1.5 Turbo and Mazda 2.5L "don't compare" when clearly, they do. It's as simple as that.

yes, I agree on paper the difference isn't that big for some measurements, but considering all the torque from the 1.5 is available just under 2000 RPMs, the 2.5 isn't comparable for a person coming from a GTI where the max torque output comes at 1500 the driving experience is quite different from the get go so hence my confusion as to why he left the lot with the Mazda 3.

[squelchy451]

Originally Posted by HKz

I'm wondering why OP went with a downgrade by going from a GTI to a Mazda3, which doesn't have a Mazdaspeed equivalent for this generation, only to complain about it...shoulda gone with a Civic hatch sport.

GTI got in a crash. I didn't want to get into the whole modding scene and got a boring car with some handling chops.



Fast forward 3 months later and it's been a mistake.


I don't really miss the low end torque, but with how uncomfortable the Mazda3 has been, may as well be driving a BRZ/86.


I went for a test drive today, didn't get much feel for it as it ended up being a short one. Hoping there's a Turo listing of a BRZ/86 so I can get a few days' driving on it.

[squelchy451]

I think what I was getting at is--has this car been so uncomfortable for someone that they had to sell it and get a different car?


I know the BRZ/86 is not as refined/quiet/soft as the GTI, which is a hot hatch, not a RWD sports car. And that it won't be as quiet or soft as the Mazda3, but I am willing to put up with it since it's a very engaging car.

[HKz]

There haven't been many folks here who have sold their twin due to their disappointment with DDing comfort as I think it is pretty obvious from the get go so people who want a cushy ride usually never end up getting one. Besides people going for an upgrade to the twins, the biggest reasons for selling that I've seen have been due to the owner's family situation (lack of space) or disappointment in power.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by squelchy451

I think what I was getting at is--has this car been so uncomfortable for someone that they had to sell it and get a different car?


I know the BRZ/86 is not as refined/quiet/soft as the GTI, which is a hot hatch, not a RWD sports car. And that it won't be as quiet or soft as the Mazda3, but I am willing to put up with it since it's a very engaging car.

Well, squelchy, we have had our 2013 FR-S for almost 5 years and I've never been uncomfortable driving it and mrs humfrz has never complained about riding in it. We are of average size and I'm 75 years old and mrs humfrz is getting up there also, so we ain't real flexible no more...

Like I said before, what you experience when you take a test drive is what it is. It's not going to get any bigger, quieter or more powerful.

Like ol @HKz says, it seems that the reason most people on this forum sell their twin is because their family has outgrown it.


Good on ya!


humfrz

[Jordan Silveira]

I'd offer you up much of the same from what other's have said.

Lacks general power if you're not willing to wring out the engine
There's plenty of great feedback in the car and road noise is one of them.
It is small and good luck fitting much of anything in the back seats besides a backpack or someone sitting crossed with their legs up in the back.

On the flip side though I can give you my personal experience with it. I love the car. Truly! It is by no means a balanced vehicle. Rather, it's a highly specialized car that focuses on handling and total control. Frankly, I have never felt this refined in any other vehicle and think you'd be hard pressed to find one that is this specialized without doubling the price and stepping up to say a Cayman.

The biggest thing that routinely sticks out to me throughout the time I've owned the car is how "grounded" I feel. I genuinely feel as if I'm one with the car. A comparison I often link it to in my life is wearing shoes. I personally have a preference for shoes that fit my feet rather snug or tight if you will. I don't need them cutting off circulation but I like them to feel like an extension of my feet as opposed to someone I place that protects and covers my feet and weighs me down, my feet shift with each step because they're loose, they lack the support and as such walking in them gets uncomfortable after a while, etc. I feel that same thing here when I drive my BRZ in comparison to any other vehicle. I get a sense of control and feedback that can best be described as being "grounded" and one with the car. It's one of the most beautiful things about this vehicle.

As for your question of if people have sold it. I'll just give you my experience with it. I have decided I would like to keep this car for as long as I can possibly make it fit in my life. I mean literally as long as possible. That means through restomods, chassis fixes in the future, rust prevention, the whole deal. I often view my BRZ as the link below from Mazda. I want my BRZ to travel with me to a time in the future where I can be go back through the life I'm living now when I know in the future, kids, bills, life, etc, will require me to leave many of my hobbies and the like on the back burner.

I'd also like to note that the BRZ is a vehicle that offers me a few things in this realm of reasonably priced sports cars to choose from that others simply don't. Coming from Preludes back in the day and other older Japanese sports cars (240z), I value 2+2 coupes. Then you start adding RWD, reliability, NA, good looks, boxer engine, low CoG, spacious trunk (fits what's needed for track setup), canyon carver > touring vehicle, etc. It becomes apparent very quickly that there is no other sports car sub 40-45k that checks those boxes.

I will offer you something though, as a person who clearly cherishes my BRZ and wants to preserve it in as many ways as possible, I would definitely advise getting a second car. I'm actually picking one up later today to designate as my daily driver. There are many times where it is quite frustrating that I can't fit a third in my car. That some items just won't fit in the car. It has led me to realize that once again, the BRZ is a specialized vehicle. It does what it does exceptionally well and is unapologetic about what it doesn't. As such, I think having a vehicle to fill other practical needs makes a ton of sense.

Sorry for the long winded response. Just was in a mood to share my story. Thanks!

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv-llQ_P4iY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv-llQ_P4iY[/ame]

[Twinz]

My brother just bought a GTI. I tried to talk him into a Twin when he was shopping, even lent him our 2015 AT for a week to try out. He didn't like the Twin for DD because of a lack of "creature comforts" and comfort in general.

He loves the Twins when it comes to spirited driving/competition....so he bought a GTI for his DD and co-drives with us at autocross events in our MT FRS.

My brother is 6' 1" (I'm 5' 10") so that may have contributed to his comfort issue.

[squelchy451]

Originally Posted by Jordan Silveira

I'd offer you up much of the same from what other's have said.

Lacks general power if you're not willing to wring out the engine
There's plenty of great feedback in the car and road noise is one of them.
It is small and good luck fitting much of anything in the back seats besides a backpack or someone sitting crossed with their legs up in the back.

I prefer the feel of a NA engine, which is why I went for the Mazda over the newly turbocharged Honda or a Volkswagen, initially. There are some days where I miss the effortless nature of a turbo engine through city driving, but those are few and far between. In fact, I'd even be happy with a GTI if they happened to sell a NA variant making similar power to my Mazda.

I wouldn't consider road noise to be a form of feedback, it's just...noise. I keep on harping on about the signal-to-noise ratio of the vehicle because if I am not getting much feedback from the steering and pedals, it better be quiet in there. I'm looking to bringing it up by cutting down on the noise (GTI) or upping the signal (BRZ).

Lack of space won't be an issue 90% of the time...even when I have to pick someone up it's just one more person. Seats fold fine, so my bike can fit in there. The rear seats just really is a storage bench with seat belts.

Originally Posted by Jordan Silveira

On the flip side though I can give you my personal experience with it. I love the car. Truly! It is by no means a balanced vehicle. Rather, it's a highly specialized car that focuses on handling and total control. Frankly, I have never felt this refined in any other vehicle and think you'd be hard pressed to find one that is this specialized without doubling the price and stepping up to say a Cayman.

The biggest thing that routinely sticks out to me throughout the time I've owned the car is how "grounded" I feel. I genuinely feel as if I'm one with the car. A comparison I often link it to in my life is wearing shoes. I personally have a preference for shoes that fit my feet rather snug or tight if you will. I don't need them cutting off circulation but I like them to feel like an extension of my feet as opposed to someone I place that protects and covers my feet and weighs me down, my feet shift with each step because they're loose, they lack the support and as such walking in them gets uncomfortable after a while, etc. I feel that same thing here when I drive my BRZ in comparison to any other vehicle. I get a sense of control and feedback that can best be described as being "grounded" and one with the car. It's one of the most beautiful things about this vehicle.

I think you hit the nail on the head for what I probably value the most in a car--a feeling of connection.

I guess the reason why I'm dilly-dallying so much is because of diminishing marginal utility. If a BRZ/86 offers 100% driver control, feedback, handling, let's just say a GTI can match 70% of that 90% of the time. How much refinement, low-end torque, usable back seats, fuel economy, etc am I willing to give up for that?

I realize that it's a question only I would be able to answer, so sorry about any frustrations you members might feel about the inanity of this question.

I'm not expecting the BRZ/86 to be like the GTI, or the other way around.. It just boils down to do I want a car that's pretty good at everything or one that is a specialist. A Swiss army knife versus a katana, if you will.

[SuperTom]

Test Drive

[g e]

See if a dealer will rent one to you for the weekend. Then go find some corkscrew roads - left right up down.

Then you will know

[bkharmony]

Originally Posted by squelchy451

I prefer the feel of a NA engine, which is why I went for the Mazda over the newly turbocharged Honda or a Volkswagen, initially. There are some days where I miss the effortless nature of a turbo engine through city driving, but those are few and far between. In fact, I'd even be happy with a GTI if they happened to sell a NA variant making similar power to my Mazda.

You should test drive it.

I wouldn't consider road noise to be a form of feedback, it's just...noise. I keep on harping on about the signal-to-noise ratio of the vehicle because if I am not getting much feedback from the steering and pedals, it better be quiet in there. I'm looking to bringing it up by cutting down on the noise (GTI) or upping the signal (BRZ).

Probably test drive it.

Lack of space won't be an issue 90% of the time...even when I have to pick someone up it's just one more person. Seats fold fine, so my bike can fit in there. The rear seats just really is a storage bench with seat belts.

Can I suggest a test drive?

I think you hit the nail on the head for what I probably value the most in a car--a feeling of connection.

Definitely test drive.

I guess the reason why I'm dilly-dallying so much is because of diminishing marginal utility. If a BRZ/86 offers 100% driver control, feedback, handling, let's just say a GTI can match 70% of that 90% of the time. How much refinement, low-end torque, usable back seats, fuel economy, etc am I willing to give up for that?

Have you thought about a test drive?

I realize that it's a question only I would be able to answer, so sorry about any frustrations you members might feel about the inanity of this question.

So, a test drive then?

I'm not expecting the BRZ/86 to be like the GTI, or the other way around.. It just boils down to do I want a car that's pretty good at everything or one that is a specialist. A Swiss army knife versus a katana, if you will.

Test drive.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by bkharmony

You should test drive it.



Probably test drive it.



Can I suggest a test drive?



Definitely test drive.



Have you thought about a test drive?



So, a test drive then?



Test drive.

[squelchy451]

Test drove it yesterday, but not enough to get a feel for the car.
Nothing on Turo, most dealerships around me don't seem to offer a pre-purchase rental.

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by squelchy451

Test drove it yesterday, but not enough to get a feel for the car.
Nothing on Turo, most dealerships around me don't seem to offer a pre-purchase rental.

Most? Meaning some will actually rent you one? This surprises me.



@Tcoat The way-too-happy CTD is very disturbing to me!!!