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Old 06-18-2023, 05:10 PM   #1
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Oil temp influence on ecu

Oddball question here. In my 2013 FRS, does the oil temperature have any influence on engine /ecu operating parameters? I want to remove it.

I'm putting the timing cover back on my engine and have noticed the sensor tip protrudes into and partially obstructs the galley. I want to plug that port and zip tie the sensor in an out of the way place while leaving it plugged in to the wiring harness. I have an aftermarket gauge at my sandwich plate (I know, not the best place) so I'm not worried about what the oem sensor is doing unless it talks to the ecu.
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Old 06-18-2023, 05:21 PM   #2
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Oddball question here. In my 2013 FRS, does the oil temperature have any influence on engine /ecu operating parameters?

The engine oil temperature, and adjusted values derived from it, are referred to in at least forty different ECU functions; primarily in the variable valve timing code.
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Old 06-18-2023, 05:25 PM   #3
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The engine oil temperature, and adjusted values derived from it, are referred to in at least forty different ECU functions; primarily in the variable valve timing code.

other than vvt, which it was quite clear, when and how is it referred?
doesn't seem to reduce timing against oil temp
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Old 06-18-2023, 05:34 PM   #4
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What is the minimum temperature needed? If the probe is touching the block, would it get hot enough?
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Old 06-18-2023, 05:57 PM   #5
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other than vvt, which it was quite clear, when and how is it referred?
I haven't checked all of the uses yet, so I didn't feel comfortable declaring with certainty that it's only VVT. Seems probable, though!

Quote:
doesn't seem to reduce timing against oil temp
I've found one instance so far where the oiltemp-specific intake correction tables alter the timing when it gets hot - under specific circumstances in the K00G code within 0x9290E, the code multiplies by the factor in one of four adjustment tables starting at 0xBEE5C (all of which are 1.000 from -10 to 100C, then 1.023 at 110C and 1.047 at 120C+).

(These tables aren't documented in any published K00G defs that I'm aware of, but the values are unchanged in S10C under "Intake Duty Correction AC/BD Adjust A/B"; though it seems my legend of "Coolant Temperature" is incorrect, and needs to read Oil Temperature, oops.)




EDIT: I kept looking, because curiosity. This is still not comprehensive.

There are ~ten uses of the AVCS oil temp at FFF896AC, which under certain circumstances is sometimes capped at 70C (see 0x4E65C), and another ~twenty uses at FFF8C468 (which is copied from 96AC by 0x90EFC).

I found another adjustment table 0xBF148 that's used in 0x931E8, spanning 0.73 to 1.11 from -10C to 140C, centered around (interpolated) 1.0 at ~97C; and another just like it, used in 0x957B0. I'd have to do more study or logging to understand this.

There's a comparison threshold defined in the table at 0xBF050 that changes over from word 0x04E2 below 20C to 0x0271 above 21C, which is then used in 0x93674 (and, another just like it in 0x95D06) when trying to decide a certain boolean. And, another threshold table at 0xBEE48 referred to by 0x93A3A with different (below freezing) thresholds.


There's some sort of rpm / oiltemp comparison going on in 0x944D4 that is super interesting to me. At first glance, I suspect this code is using the table at 0xBF160 to increase the idle RPM basis as temperatures pass 90C - once at 90-..100+: 382..450 rpm, and then again at 128..130+: 450..890rpm, and finally 130..140+: 890..982rpm.

There's a few cases where it cares only if oiltemp is below 50C, referring specifically to the float at 0x10A300 = 42 48 00 00.

There's a few cases where an oiltemp table is filled with all the same value.

Last edited by callisto; 06-18-2023 at 06:40 PM. Reason: curiosity
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Old 06-18-2023, 06:35 PM   #6
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I haven't checked all of the uses yet, so I didn't feel comfortable declaring with certainty that it's only VVT. Seems probable, though!

I've found one instance so far where the oiltemp-specific intake correction tables alter the timing when it gets hot - under specific circumstances in the code within 0x9290E, the code multiplies by the factor in one of four adjustment tables starting at 0xBEE5C (all of which are 1.000 from -10 to 100C, then 1.023 at 110C and 1.047 at 120C+).

(These tables aren't documented in any published K00G defs that I'm aware of, but the values are unchanged in S10C under "Intake Duty Correction AC/BD Adjust A/B"; though it seems my legend of "Coolant Temperature" is incorrect, and needs to read Oil Temperature, oops.)
Thank you for your input but most of what you are saying is above my pay grade.. Bottom line: If the probe is contacting the block or if I drill a small hole in a safe area so that the end of the probe is in metal, will the ecu see the minimum temperature for hooning?
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Old 06-19-2023, 05:50 AM   #7
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Thank you for your input but most of what you are saying is above my pay grade.. Bottom line: If the probe is contacting the block or if I drill a small hole in a safe area so that the end of the probe is in metal, will the ecu see the minimum temperature for hooning?



Car manufacturers will very rarely include sensors that are not necessary for correct operation, the oil temp sensor is there for a reason, there are many unknown tables or functions in he ECU software only a small percentage of functions are known.


Be best to keep the oil temp sensor in a working position maybe fit a T fitting so you can keep it and your guage
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Old 06-19-2023, 08:34 AM   #8
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Car manufacturers will very rarely include sensors that are not necessary for correct operation, the oil temp sensor is there for a reason, there are many unknown tables or functions in he ECU software only a small percentage of functions are known.


Be best to keep the oil temp sensor in a working position maybe fit a T fitting so you can keep it and your guage
Keeping it functional would be my first choice. However, the threads for the sensor are an odd size: M10x1.25 (according to @KillerBMotorsports) and I can't find an elbow or anything else that size except a plug.

I'd still like to know if there is a minimum temperature for full functionality of the car.
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Old 06-19-2023, 01:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callisto View Post
I haven't checked all of the uses yet, so I didn't feel comfortable declaring with certainty that it's only VVT. Seems probable, though!

I've found one instance so far where the oiltemp-specific intake correction tables alter the timing when it gets hot - under specific circumstances in the K00G code within 0x9290E, the code multiplies by the factor in one of four adjustment tables starting at 0xBEE5C (all of which are 1.000 from -10 to 100C, then 1.023 at 110C and 1.047 at 120C+).

(These tables aren't documented in any published K00G defs that I'm aware of, but the values are unchanged in S10C under "Intake Duty Correction AC/BD Adjust A/B"; though it seems my legend of "Coolant Temperature" is incorrect, and needs to read Oil Temperature, oops.)




EDIT: I kept looking, because curiosity. This is still not comprehensive.

There are ~ten uses of the AVCS oil temp at FFF896AC, which under certain circumstances is sometimes capped at 70C (see 0x4E65C), and another ~twenty uses at FFF8C468 (which is copied from 96AC by 0x90EFC).

I found another adjustment table 0xBF148 that's used in 0x931E8, spanning 0.73 to 1.11 from -10C to 140C, centered around (interpolated) 1.0 at ~97C; and another just like it, used in 0x957B0. I'd have to do more study or logging to understand this.

There's a comparison threshold defined in the table at 0xBF050 that changes over from word 0x04E2 below 20C to 0x0271 above 21C, which is then used in 0x93674 (and, another just like it in 0x95D06) when trying to decide a certain boolean. And, another threshold table at 0xBEE48 referred to by 0x93A3A with different (below freezing) thresholds.


There's some sort of rpm / oiltemp comparison going on in 0x944D4 that is super interesting to me. At first glance, I suspect this code is using the table at 0xBF160 to increase the idle RPM basis as temperatures pass 90C - once at 90-..100+: 382..450 rpm, and then again at 128..130+: 450..890rpm, and finally 130..140+: 890..982rpm.

There's a few cases where it cares only if oiltemp is below 50C, referring specifically to the float at 0x10A300 = 42 48 00 00.

There's a few cases where an oiltemp table is filled with all the same value.
great

still think is all related to vvt , oil temp is fundamental for vvt activation and there are tons of conditions to be met

other than that Don t think it affects power, only with ecutek you can reduce power and timing against oil temp as it can get used as a relevant input in custom maps
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Old 06-19-2023, 05:46 PM   #10
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Keeping it functional would be my first choice. However, the threads for the sensor are an odd size: M10x1.25 (according to @KillerBMotorsports) and I can't find an elbow or anything else that size except a plug.
How about tapping another M10 hole into the timing cover?
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Old 06-19-2023, 09:09 PM   #11
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How about tapping another M10 hole into the timing cover?
The question is where? It might be better to relocate it to the pan. Now there's a new product for Killer B. A bong for the pan and pigtail to extend the wires.
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Old 06-20-2023, 06:26 PM   #12
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The question is where? It might be better to relocate it to the pan. Now there's a new product for Killer B. A bong for the pan and pigtail to extend the wires.
There's a boss you can tap. There's enough room on it for a 1/8NPT, but M10 might be too big? I'd have to look.

The pan would be ideal. I thought you were trying to work with the OEM harness, but if you're good with making the pan work, that is ideal IMO.
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Old 06-20-2023, 09:10 PM   #13
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There's a boss you can tap. There's enough room on it for a 1/8NPT, but M10 might be too big? I'd have to look.

The pan would be ideal. I thought you were trying to work with the OEM harness, but if you're good with making the pan work, that is ideal IMO.
I'm open to suggestions. I'm wondering if I could just drill and tap into the water jacket. Would ecu "know" the difference? I've thought about the oil feed to the left head. The hole might need to be at an angle to clear the filter housing.

I've looked all over the internet try to find an extender but no one makes the 10x1.25 male/female version.
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Old 06-21-2023, 08:03 PM   #14
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