Oil Pressure

[blsfrs]

A few years ago, there was a lot of discussion about porting the galleys on the timing covers. Anybody still doing that? I talked to Dewey at IAG about purchasing a new timing cover and possibly doing some port work. He said their oiling mods are in the block not the cover and they use the stock oil pumps.

No word yet about my engine's problem. If my guy doesn't find an obvious problem, then I'll replace the cover. If porting is still a thing, I might have it done on a new timing cover.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by blsfrs

A few years ago, there was a lot of discussion about porting the galleys on the timing covers. Anybody still doing that? I talked to Dewey at IAG about purchasing a new timing cover and possibly doing some port work. He said their oiling mods are in the block not the cover and they use the stock oil pumps.

No word yet about my engine's problem. If my guy doesn't find an obvious problem, then I'll replace the cover. If porting is still a thing, I might have it done on a new timing cover.

I know some guys were DIY'ing it but I don't think it was something anyone was specifically offering as a service. I've contemplated it but always held off hoping for other better solutions.

[KillerBMotorsport]

Generally porting only makes sense if you're running large clearances, super high RPM, and high viscosity oil. Really, it's how they did things back on 2007 and it worked OK for the time, but the knowledge and tech has improved quite a bit since then. No one does it anymore.

Larger and/or ported pumps (and passages) are more snake oil than anything. You can make a bigger improvement by adding a 20-cent washer and shimming the pump's bypass. That will net you ~2-4% improvement in flow/pressure, which really, isn't enough to save your engine vs it's natural pressure.

Also, the pumps on the Suby engines (especially the FAs) are grossly oversized to accommodate the AVCS system. Under load and high RPM where flow is at its highest, only ~40% of the pump's total capacity is going through the engine. The rest is being bypassed.

[Compelica]

Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport

Generally porting only makes sense if you're running large clearances, super high RPM, and high viscosity oil. Really, it's how they did things back on 2007 and it worked OK for the time, but the knowledge and tech has improved quite a bit since then. No one does it anymore.

Larger and/or ported pumps (and passages) are more snake oil than anything. You can make a bigger improvement by adding a 20-cent washer and shimming the pump's bypass. That will net you ~2-4% improvement in flow/pressure, which really, isn't enough to save your engine vs it's natural pressure.

Also, the pumps on the Suby engines (especially the FAs) are grossly oversized to accommodate the AVCS system. Under load and high RPM where flow is at its highest, only ~40% of the pump's total capacity is going through the engine. The rest is being bypassed.

Does that basically mean that aftermarket oil pumps do nothing for the oil issue (apart from purportedly being more reliable)?

[blsfrs]

Originally Posted by Compelica

Does that basically mean that aftermarket oil pumps do nothing for the oil issue (apart from purportedly being more reliable)?

Killer B would know better but I've read several posts where "higher flow" pumps (Remax, FA20DIT) made no practical difference.

[Compelica]

Originally Posted by blsfrs

Killer B would know better but I've read several posts where "higher flow" pumps (Remax, FA20DIT) made no practical difference.

With that said - does that also essentially mean that the argument of avoiding oil coolers which additionally restricts flow/pressure is moot, since the pump is able to supply more flow/pressure than required, and the oil pump would just bypass 'less'?

Not great with my understanding of pumps and how the engine lubrication system works, I could be wrong but I recall seeing experiences where pressures drop after an oil cooler is installed. Where oil pressure is measured would likely play a role as well...

[blsfrs]

Originally Posted by Compelica

With that said - does that also essentially mean that the argument of avoiding oil coolers which additionally restricts flow/pressure is moot, since the pump is able to supply more flow/pressure than required, and the oil pump would just bypass 'less'?

Not great with my understanding of pumps and how the engine lubrication system works, I could be wrong but I recall seeing experiences where pressures drop after an oil cooler is installed. Where oil pressure is measured would likely play a role as well...

I can follow the oiling diagram but figuring out how pressure, volume, viscosity works within the oil galleys is way beyond me.

I agree that with our pump's excess volume, oil coolers should not be a problem. For that matter, refilling an oil accumulator shouldn't be of much concern either. Killer B most likely has a different opinion.(LOL)

A couple of years ago, Ultramoon posted his findings on sensor location. Not a huge difference in where you measure pressure.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...=134863&page=7

[blsfrs]

My engine guy pulled the timing cover off of my engine. Unfortunately, he did not find anything out of the ordinary other than Element Tuning putting a restrictor on the port going to the left head.

I'm going to put a new timing cover on and see what happens.

[KillerBMotorsport]

Originally Posted by Compelica

With that said - does that also essentially mean that the argument of avoiding oil coolers which additionally restricts flow/pressure is moot, since the pump is able to supply more flow/pressure than required, and the oil pump would just bypass 'less'?

Not great with my understanding of pumps and how the engine lubrication system works, I could be wrong but I recall seeing experiences where pressures drop after an oil cooler is installed. Where oil pressure is measured would likely play a role as well...

Typically, you see a pressure drop when something has been done incorrectly. Adapter ports to small, lines too small, oil cooler too restrictive, etc.

If it's done correctly there should be minimal losses (1-2psi) and those should be more than made up for by the reduced oil temperatures.

[KillerBMotorsport]

Originally Posted by blsfrs

A couple of years ago, Ultramoon posted his findings on sensor location. Not a huge difference in where you measure pressure.

Looks like a 10-12psi drop at temp. Not exactly a little, and it likely scales up down with RPM.

Observational note on the testing. Different gauges and gauge types were used.

[KillerBMotorsport]

Originally Posted by blsfrs

My engine guy pulled the timing cover off of my engine. Unfortunately, he did not find anything out of the ordinary other than Element Tuning putting a restrictor on the port going to the left head.

That is a decent reduction in port size. I'd like to see the reasoning and data behind that.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport

Looks like a 10-12psi drop at temp. Not exactly a little, and it likely scales up down with RPM.

Observational note on the testing. Different gauges and gauge types were used.

Gauges were tested against a third reference before use. See notes in the post. The difference is real. I was surprised but decided to keep measuring at the main gallery anyhow.

[wizzo]

KillerBMotorsport, a similar method to feed the mains directly could be extremely beneficial and I imagine it has a big market if integrated into a sandwich plate. Definately something down your alley! Look into a less DIY solution for the masses.

[blsfrs]

When replacing the front cover, other than the crank/op seal, what else do I need?

I'm guessing everything else will get transferred from the old cover.