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Old 08-26-2022, 10:31 AM   #197
DarkPira7e
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We'll, not a lot has changed. For fun, I purchased a CXracing bar and plate intercooler found here - https://www.ebay.com/itm/39026603036...mis&media=COPY . Definitely helps with IATs during a pull but still not what I want. Instead of 150 degrees I'm seeing 115-120. Casual driving IATs are within a few degrees of ambient consistently, so it is a great upgrade in general if you're in need of one (but you'll be fabricating your own mounts)

I've decided to invest and have asked Jesse at JDL to make me one of his badass bar and plate intercoolers. I have also ordered a 24x12x3.5" Garrett core and am going to have VEMS make some piping for me. I'll test both, run what works best and either sell the rest or hold onto it for friends I push to turbo their cars

This photo is the CXracing intercooler.i have a wooden shelf I bolted to the car as a makeshift support for testing. If it was better I'd have built actual brackets, glad I waited.
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Old 08-31-2022, 02:10 PM   #198
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Jesse may be a bit too busy so I'm not bothering with the JDL upgraded intercooler.

I received the Garrett intercooler today, what a monster!! I took photos of all the different intercoolers and cores so you may benefit and decide what you like best in your application.

1- Standard JDL intercooler
Tube and fin, seems to be a generic FMIC you'll find on eBay.
2.75" thick
Temps went from 90 degrees f to 150f during a 3rd gear pull at 22psi. Would sit between 115-130 in traffic, 100-110 cruising

2. Generic eBay FMIC
Tube and fin
2.63" thick, but wider than JDL core by about 5"
This performed better than the JDL core. Temps rise from 85 to 125 during 3rd gear pull. Same temps as JDL intercooler in traffic and cruising

3. CXracing FMIC
Bar and plate
3" thick, 2" shorter than the eBay core.
This did much better, presumably entirely only because it's bar and plate rather than tube and fin. Temps rise from 90 to 110 during 3rd gear. In traffic, temps sit around 100, creeping up slowly as it heatsoaks. Cruising, this intercooler sat 2-3 degrees above ambient

4. Garrett intercooler
Bar and plate
3.5" thick, 5" wider than the widest core I've tested
I have no data on this yet. The fin density is absurd and the finish of the product is incredible. I am a little worried that it will affect radiator performance, we'll see!
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Old 08-31-2022, 02:49 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPira7e View Post
Jesse may be a bit too busy so I'm not bothering with the JDL upgraded intercooler.

I received the Garrett intercooler today, what a monster!! I took photos of all the different intercoolers and cores so you may benefit and decide what you like best in your application.

1- Standard JDL intercooler
Tube and fin, seems to be a generic FMIC you'll find on eBay.
2.75" thick
Temps went from 90 degrees f to 150f during a 3rd gear pull at 22psi. Would sit between 115-130 in traffic, 100-110 cruising

2. Generic eBay FMIC
Tube and fin
2.63" thick, but wider than JDL core by about 5"
This performed better than the JDL core. Temps rise from 85 to 125 during 3rd gear pull. Same temps as JDL intercooler in traffic and cruising

3. CXracing FMIC
Bar and plate
3" thick, 2" shorter than the eBay core.
This did much better, presumably entirely only because it's bar and plate rather than tube and fin. Temps rise from 90 to 110 during 3rd gear. In traffic, temps sit around 100, creeping up slowly as it heatsoaks. Cruising, this intercooler sat 2-3 degrees above ambient

4. Garrett intercooler
Bar and plate
3.5" thick, 5" wider than the widest core I've tested
I have no data on this yet. The fin density is absurd and the finish of the product is incredible. I am a little worried that it will affect radiator performance, we'll see!

Dude, I had to read all pages, and do not regret. Quite the build. Amazing work!! Too bad you live in VT because I would love to see it and ride passenger!
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Old 08-31-2022, 03:02 PM   #200
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Did the end-tanks already come welded on the new intercooler or did you do that?
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Old 08-31-2022, 03:53 PM   #201
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Dude, I had to read all pages, and do not regret. Quite the build. Amazing work!! Too bad you live in VT because I would love to see it and ride passenger!
I'll be at Wicked Big Meet hopefully next year, maybe see you there? Thank you, it's been a crazy ride, still not over. Hoping to keep "innovating"

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Did the end-tanks already come welded on the new intercooler or did you do that?
ATP welds these on. This is the exact product I bought
https://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...gory_Code=IASY
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Old 08-31-2022, 07:13 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPira7e View Post
I'll be at Wicked Big Meet hopefully next year, maybe see you there? Thank you, it's been a crazy ride, still not over. Hoping to keep "innovating"



ATP welds these on. This is the exact product I bought
https://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...gory_Code=IASY

Oh thats far away! Iíll probably be a Broke East. Might take a ride to VT. Havenít driven the BRZ past CT since I got it.
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Old 08-31-2022, 09:25 PM   #203
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Oh thats far away! Iíll probably be a Broke East. Might take a ride to VT. Havenít driven the BRZ past CT since I got it.
Well be certain to let me know if you're up my way, would be cool to meet you!
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Old 09-01-2022, 10:03 PM   #204
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https://datazap.me/u/darkpira7e/3rd-...3&mark=293-162

Datalog of 3rd gear. 60 degrees outside, this is what the JDL intercooler does. Temps rise 37 degrees in 3.6 seconds, nice dip initially, but considering that it's 60 degrees out, this is painful to see.
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Old 09-07-2022, 07:35 PM   #205
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I've been scheming. I really am tired of the current gravity fed oil drain.
I know I have it 95% fixed, but.. that's not really enough. If I park facing downhill, the oil can't drain properly and it smokes.
So...
We're going to try and emulate SolidSnake11 and create a cam driven oil sump.
We have cam driven pump from an FA WRX engine
I've got a lot of ambition and -AN line

Currently designing the sump accumulator and have this so far.
The -10 from the turbo will probably be moved more towards the back, and the cylinder will be tilted down a bit to facilitate flow towards the exit
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Old 09-07-2022, 11:06 PM   #206
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@KillerBMotorsport
What info can you give me about the WRX oil scavenging pump in this way I plan to use it? I know your team has extensive experience on the FA20DIT. I won't be doing road course racing or anything other than an aggressive pull once in a while.
Also, thoughts on a cylinder shaped tank vs rectangular? I am wondering if this shape will require a baffle during pulls so that the oil doesn't just rush op the rear wall.
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Old 09-08-2022, 07:33 AM   #207
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That tank is huge and not necessary IMO, if you're going to use the WRX scavenge pump and a ball bearing turbo.

Here's what we used on our FA20WRX Twin Scroll Fury kit with a Garrett GTX3576-R Gen 2. It's a very small turbo sump, but it never once smoked or had any kind of operational issues. With the WRX scavenge pump, you should have more than enough flow to keep the sump nearly empty... BUT you want to have your higher to width ratio the other way around if you have the space for it. In other words, put the can in a vertical position, not horizontal. The oil evacuation efficiency will be significantly improved the more you can keep oil at the scavenge pickup.

When we were making low mount turbo kits for the EJ engines, we did look at using the FA20 scavenge pump, but the mounting, pullies, and pump itself, was far more expensive than the electric pump we had been using. The electric pump we used with our kits was a Mocal Heavy Duty Scavenge pump. We really beat the crap out of them and ran one for nearly 10 years without a single issue. I've never even heard of anyone having an issue with one. If you go this route, you'll need a check valve on the supply and return lines to prevent syphoning and filling the turbo sump after shutdown. We even used a delayed relay that would run the scavenge pump for 5 seconds after shut-down, but I always thought that was overkill.
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Old 09-08-2022, 07:44 AM   #208
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That tank is huge and not necessary IMO, if you're going to use the WRX scavenge pump and a ball bearing turbo.

Here's what we used on our FA20WRX Twin Scroll Fury kit with a Garrett GTX3576-R Gen 2. It's a very small turbo sump, but it never once smoked or had any kind of operational issues. With the WRX scavenge pump, you should have more than enough flow to keep the sump nearly empty... BUT you want to have your higher to width ratio the other way around if you have the space for it. In other words, put the can in a vertical position, not horizontal. The oil evacuation efficiency will be significantly improved the more you can keep oil at the scavenge pickup.

When we were making low mount turbo kits for the EJ engines, we did look at using the FA20 scavenge pump, but the mounting, pullies, and pump itself, was far more expensive than the electric pump we had been using. The electric pump we used with our kits was a Mocal Heavy Duty Scavenge pump. We really beat the crap out of them and ran one for nearly 10 years without a single issue. I've never even heard of anyone having an issue with one. If you go this route, you'll need a check valve on the supply and return lines to prevent syphoning and filling the turbo sump after shutdown. We even used a delayed relay that would run the scavenge pump for 5 seconds after shut-down, but I always thought that was overkill.

Vertical sounds like a great idea, and gives me even more room for play. Thank you for the input! I actually have a TurboWerx pump I used a few years ago that worked well for me. Really, the only reason I'm using the OEM FA20 scavenging pump is because I want to stop depositing oil into the pan, and I didn't like the idea of the the Turbowerx pump potentially foaming the oil in the pan with its strength.



I really appreciate you taking the time to reply, it means a lot. I did plan to add a one way valve because there will be a lot of oil in that line going all the way to the head.
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Old 09-08-2022, 08:45 AM   #209
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No problem on the response.

Spur gear pumps at that low of an RPM/flow rate should not foam the oil. I wouldn't worry about that at all.

The OEM pump flows W-A-Y more than that electric pump and is likely more probably to foam, but again, not something I'd worry about.

Foaming the oil is far less harmful than aeration, as it sits on top of the oil vs within the oil. Anytime you suck air, it can make milkshake (foam) but that is how it goes with any scavenge setup. As long as your return is at the top of the pan (anywhere but the bottom of the pan really), you shouldn't have any issues.

If you're super concerned about the quality of the returned oil, there are air oil separators out there specifically for scavenge use, or a swirl pot reservoir would work as well.
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Old 09-18-2022, 12:48 PM   #210
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Sanded down and painted the crash bar before the new intercooler is set up!
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